I’m curious about that, too. My character was fairly strong, and once dead I was committed to helping Zero out (since I love @David_Falkayn but found Collins utterly insufferable), but couldn’t see any actual benefit that I might have brought. Of course, Collins had a lot of help, too.
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Less in the beginning as the stance bonuses of players were smaller, more as the game went on. The HELP bonuses had a cap to prevent absurd bonuses late in the game and did not contribute toward CRITs to keep things balanced. Digging through the archives:
Turn 4: 50 rolls with HELP/HINDER bonuses. 1 roll converted from MISS to HIT
Turn 5: 36 rolls with HELP/HINDER bonuses. 2 rolls converted from MISS to HIT
Turn 6: no combat
Turn 7: 34 rolls with HELP/HINDER bonuses. 6 rolls converted from MISS to HIT
Turn 8: 15 rolls with HELP/HINDER bonuses. 3 rolls converted from MISS to HIT
Turn 9: 14 rolls with HELP/HINDER bonuses. 1 roll converted from MISS to HIT
13 places where it made a difference out of a possible 149 rolls made with HELP/HINDER bonuses, so just under 10%.
I was pleased with how balanced the results were in general. Most clashes went right down to the 1HP wire and were up for grabs by anyone. The HELP/HINDER bonus did flip the result of a few combats, but at the end of the day was more of an extra nudge than a deciding factor.
4 Likes
I realize that your one regret in this game is that you were not able to lop off Mr. Collins’ head.
I believe that is also the most widely shared regret 
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of course-- a good villain needs to be Really Good. A weak Darth Vader would not be interesting.
But a psycho Zero that fights the second most powerful character to a draw and then cuts through an entire coalition like a hot knife through butter?
That’s a plot arc.
Well Played!
7 Likes
Aww, it really didn’t have to be me, as long as somebody got to do it. ;)
7 Likes
Let’s see if I’ve finally pulled my thoughts together enough to say something worthwhile…
First and foremost: thank you @messana for a terrific gaming experience! I’m a total n00b to playing RPGs but I could tell early on you’d put a great deal of thought and care into the mechanisms of play, and the historical settings we visited. (Yes, I went down the history-oriented rabbit hole every round I played, so you did win. 
) And of course, thanks to all my fellow players too! You left me in awe at your creativity and set a high bar for me to reach for in my own efforts. It was a fantastic ride.
As a n00b, it’s a little hard to say what worked for me and what didn’t. I felt pretty good at plotting the character stats (STR, PER, etc.) each round, but it was harder choosing my stances when I had no idea who I was facing in battle. (I tried to number-crunch, but it didn’t help.) But it did put us n00bs and more experienced players on more even footing, so I’m okay with it.
I agree it was sad to see so many great characters and players drop away as the game went on… but that was the Game. And the Lounge was a great way to stay involved, even after Evvy’s unfortunate demise.
I didn’t know our characters would continue in each other’s souls until I got my PM, but I liked the idea. (I knew Highlander well enough to play with the influence factor a little in my narrative. After defeating Bark, Evvy wound up using a lot of… “doggone” expressions when describing her revenge against Zrínyi Bernát, but nobody noticed. 
)
I loved the storytelling the most. I loved the amazing character concepts, and I loved their interactions and the way their stories unfolded. I wish I could have participated better and contributed more… it got easier as I jumped in more and learned more improv. And I enjoyed it more than I thought I would… even when Evvy decided she wanted to do something different than I’d planned.
And speaking of discussing plot twists… I’m curious to know (if @messana’s willing to share) if there was more to YOwOL’s tale that didn’t get told? Did we not stumble over an important plot twist with him… or were we supposed to create it? (It’s okay with me if you don’t want to give away any secrets. But if you’re willing to share…)
10 Likes
About player stances- the inability to strategize against a known opponent didn’t bother me in the least. I had a character and I played him as I thought befitted his temperament. A homicidal brute who occasionally just has to boogie.
But then I never took a head; so with a record of one draw, one no-show, and then game over, perhaps I should pass the salt shaker with that.
6 Likes
I will say that my most unexpected experience was the creation of player-driven NPC accounts. Normally, I have a few sock accounts involved in the story that will riff on things with the rest of the players. Both players gave me a heads up before their hijinks began, and boy did the hijinks begin. I won’t reveal their identities without permission, but they are certainly welcome to remove the mask at this point.
I think the only downside of player-driven NPCs is that the rest of the player base may mistake the socks for ‘sanctioned’ narrative and chase after plot that isn’t there. On the other hand, it adds a delightful amount of obfuscation and potential for additional emergent narrative that it was a net win to me. I’m hard at work looking for ways to build on this in the next game. 
5 Likes
What were everyones stance bonuses at the end?
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Maximum bonus in a single stance: Jane with Reckless +16
Players surviving into Turn 8, total bonuses ranged from +38 to +48. Most folks had one or two stances over 10, generally building off of where their starting bonuses had been strongest. Some were more well balanced across the rest of the stances, some really focused almost exclusively on their initial bonus stances. All in all, a mix of philosophies.
In the final confrontation, both Zero and Mr. Collins had an aggregate bonus of +53:
R A N C D
Zero 15 7 7 13 11
Mr. Collins 7 9 15 14 8
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@messana thanks so much for doing this game. It was really fun. You asked for comments from newbies so here are my thought.
I have never played any kind of roll playing game or any kind of group chat or game online. I do love strategy games and I love improv so I thought this would be right up my ally.
I really loved the character development and storytelling in this game particular as the game went on and characters developed more.
I found it very hard to remember 27 ish characters.i kept wishing that there were some categories to group them in or if every time they posted everything about their character would pop up too to remind me of who they were.
At first I thought an alliance was being put together of the older players and I was really excited about that cause it gave me a smaller group to relate to and I was hoping that more experienced players were going to take me under their wing. But I guess it turns out this game wasn’t designed for that. It’s interesting to read that you were concerned that experienced players would all band together. Maybe in the future new players could be given something special that other players want to make experienced players want to join forces with newbies. Also some people have more time available than others to play the game. I wonder if there is a way to occasionally give anyone who hasn’t posted much the ability to give 10 extra points to a player of their choosing. Then those who are more active would start reaching out to the less active players to befriend them to get their points. I think part of why we were so likely to help rather than hinder our opponents in this game was that I didn’t feel like I really got to know someone till they killed me. So of course I want to help the 2 players I actually feel like I have a connection with.
I did find it frustrating to not understand any of the strategy involved. Reading this thread I now appreciate your efforts to obviscate things so players that make spreadsheets can’t clobber others. (I actually had no inkling that that’s something someone might do while playing a game, I guess I am way out of my league here.)
Being a newbie I had a lot of trouble understanding a lot of your terminology. I understood that certain stances beat others but I didn’t understand how the dice roll impacted that. How much of your number revealed in the early turns related to a dice roll vs. stance. I wasn’t sure what a good number was. And when it said HIT. At first I wasn’t sure if that meant that I was hit or if I had hit someone else. At first I thought “experiencing a quickening” meant I had died. But then I realized it meant the other person died. So I guess for me I think I would hav enjoyed it more if I understood the results more clearly once they were posted. Maybe I should have asked some questions early on but I figured if I waited a few rounds I would get the hang of it. But as the rounds went on I got more and more confused cause things got more complicated.
Those are my thoughts. It was definitely a fun experience. I’m looking forward to the next game.
10 Likes
As this group evolves as a continuing role-playing troupe, the leader becomes less of a Game Master and more of a Game Mentor.
We’ve seen many of the returning players evolve their style to include dabbling with side-characters of their own. And, indeed, some of the new folks got in on that as well, or pushed the limits of the game rules in other ways. Kudos! Civilized disobedience isn’t just for activism, it makes for good sport too.
So, it makes sense that current and future GMs will take more of a mentorship role, establishing the guardrails that bound the outer edges of the narrative and play mechanics, but also support and enable players in taking on voicing the supporting characters that further inhabit these worlds.
9 Likes
An additional game mechanic that might not have been obvious, and has gone unstated so far. It seems that some individuals attempted to use personal correspondence in order to socially engineer certain matchups, or to avoid them.
Curious that something so integral to our shared history to be missing from the record, but not unsurprising given who wound up tending the final archives…
6 Likes
we can be direct here.
As always, I try to build co-operation. I was messaging everybody early in the game to see who wanted to work together to stay alive
Later in the game, it was obvious who was working together to engineer match -ups. The same three players who had already staged a mutiny.
I was disheartened and deeply frustrated that what has always been considered an essential tool, extra-game communication such as PMs, was considered by some to “be against the sprit of the game.”
Really? we were building more narrative. It’s how the most interesting bits of narrative bending were fostered in the original BadAss Space Dragons. I was explicitly targeting new players – and making some headway. Indeed, I was avoiding several veteran players, because I figured they were already forming their own coalitions.
As for my “victory”: It was a quirk of the dice that I “won.” Jane should have taken out Zero in their encounter, and I shouldn’t have killed Other when I did. Such are the whims of the dice. My plan was to have Mr Collins throw a full-on three year old tantrum and go down to the Kurgan in a truly epic fit of pomposity. That would have let the remaining handful, including several first time players, duel it out. However two other players encouraged me (via PM) to stay with the coalition to slow down Zero. They thought Zero made a better villain than the Kurgan, and they were right.
So what is the proper role of extra-game communication? To me, it allows ideas to be tested and provides a vital tool for bringing new players along for the fun. Why limit it?
-Falkayn/Zanetti/Landau/Collins
9 Likes
Every Pen&Dice game I have ever played always involved passing notes that the GM and other players couldn’t see. Every one.
It didn’t matter if it was a PvP game or traditional cooperative RPG. We passed notes, made secret plans…
Maybe that’s why I was less “how dare you!” when you initially contacted me, and more “what is he up to?”
I have always assumed that secret alliances were part of the spirit of every game, unless the GM expressly forbid it (I have heard of one or two GMs who did, but never played with them). And in a set-up like this, there is a limit to their effect, anyway. Combat was always one on one and dice are fickle. Our near-breaking of the system came well after the bulk of players were eliminated.
Others may have different views. But this game was full of hidden mechanics, and the PMs were but one of them (albeit player instead of GM controlled).
8 Likes
I enjoyed the back channel repartee. I didn’t trust a word of it, assuming skullduggery and all, but it adds depth.
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Thanks for running this @messana! It was very fun, and must have been a lot of work to put together and run. A few notes:
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I’m personally not a huge fan of PVP, but I think keeping folks around for a few rounds before getting knocked out would have helped. I survived up until turn 7 but had trouble clicking with other characters because everyone I interacted with either turned up dead or killed me at the end.
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The secret orders and hidden information was very nice. I liked that I could submit my orders as early as I liked. I mostly chose arbitrary letters for my stances, and didn’t need to spend much time worrying about min maxing.
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I felt that the game ran out of steam at the end, but real life always comes first.
If you choose to run another, maybe craft something that requires less maintenance, add more automation, or recruit a few helpers. -
The twist at the end with players refusing to fight, was very creative but I had no idea how that would resolve properly. I refused to join simply because I wanted the game to end in prompt manner, especially with so many players out of direct action.
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Perhaps add storytelling bonuses (especially for new players) to reward good interactions and encourage them.
If you choose to run another, maybe craft something that requires less maintenance, add more automation, or recruit a few helpers.
10 Likes
As a noob I was a little surprised when Mr. Collins contacted me (in character) under the pretext of wanting to see my journals and suggested we travel together. I was, of course, immediately skeptical and declined.
It was much later that the coalition formed. Looking back at our correspondence, it was @MalevolentPixy who first raised the possibility of banding together to fight the Kurgan in what became the Lost Cause.
Personally I would have no objection to any of the behind-the-scenes shenanigans being made public. If I had to do the same again I would, my friend The Ratchet @Pogo
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Interesting idea. Game related pm’s combined in a scroll by the Archivist and posted as a final thread before cubby holed away forever in the dusty ossified confines of our New Beige Hell…
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It occurs to me it’s unlikely there were not out of character discussions of game mechanics. While not something I’m interested in I think that’s a strong draw for the Excel crowd. If it’s public enough perhaps keep it in character, or take it to channels it won’t pull others out of the game.
5 Likes