I don’t have a problem with porn – as long as it’s corralled and I can avoid it completely.
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I’d agree, but (speaking as someone who deals with spammers in other places) I’d be careful about too much specificity. There’s no rules lawyers like that group…
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Good point. A craft group I belonged to ran into trouble because despite having a very clear description at the top of each chat, some people would show up, blurt out all the stuff they had for sale that week, and then leave without having acknowledged anyone else.
That was on Twitter. A few times they hung out long enough that the moderator got to ask them if they knew what the hell “chat” meant.
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with illustrations!
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Will hand gestures do?
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Disclaimer
I’m just sharing my thoughts here, not setting policy. I mostly stay out of moderation issues because I view my purpose as keeping this thing running. I do think this discussion is both important and productive, and I want this place to be somewhere we can all be proud to be a part of.
I kind of like the geometric progression idea, because math. It might also be a hassle to keep track of.
I agree with @waetherman earlier, that short-term suspensions should be left up to the moderators. As far as I’m aware, there isn’t actually any way to ban someone, although since the suspension terms can be set to an arbitrary date the distinction is largely semantic. I think it may make sense, when considering long-term suspensions, that a larger group participate in the decision making process. This could take the form of a executive council once we actually formalize into some sort of social organization. Another approach could be to form a jury and have them make a decision. It could also take the form of an at-large vote.
I’m generally of the opinion that hiding the post is usually enough. This happens automatically if a moderator agrees with the flag, or if a post is flagged three times. I think mods and admins see hidden posts by default, which can be a bummer, but no one else has to see them unless their curiosity gets the best of them. The author of the post can always delete it if they choose. There are definitely cases where deletion makes sense, but there are also cases where it may help the offender more than the offended (assuming the post is hidden, of course.)
On the surface, I agree. I do think we can make exceptions, though. There are definitely creative members here. I may one day grow up to be a creative person. If someone here writes a book, or a song, or paints a picture, or produces a video and wants to share it with the group, even if they may profit off of that work, I don’t think we should prevent that so long as the intent is clear. Maybe we can restrict it to a particular category or sub-category so that people can avoid it if they choose.
A few practical limitations to consider:
- Storage: It’s a little known fact, but naked pixels take up twice as much space than fully clothed ones.
- E-Mail: This is fundamentally broken as an unfiltered medium of communication. In order for this BBS to send e-mail messages and have any chance of them making it through to the recipients, it relies on a third-party service to send them. This service has its own set of standards (which we bizarrely triggered one time), and porn is likely against it. There are other services that we could use that might be more forgiving, but I am cheap and the one we’re using is free for the amount of messages that we currently send.
- TMI: I will not kink shame. I just don’t want to know some things.
All of that applies to visual imagery. The written word is likely another matter. If you want to post something of that nature, we may want to provide some guidelines around that:
- Restrict it to a single category/sub-category.
- Wrap it in a pair of spoiler tags, or in a collapsible section, with some preamble to make it clear what it is.
- Don’t make it creepy or illegal, there are probably better places on the internet for that.
- It might still get us in trouble with our e-mail provider, or our host, so we may not get to be as permissive as we’d like.
The only other thought I have is the same as others have expressed. It is absolutely worth discussing this and determining if we need to be more specific, but we have to be mindful that we leave enough room to avoid creating a playground for the rules lawyers among us.
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If a member in good standing does that with their own work, I don’t think most of us would class that under spam. I think of it more as someone posting unrelated links solely to harvest clicks and pageviews or for SEO games. Promoting your own, hard work is different: I wouldn’t even be adverse to a tag or category for that, to make them easier to find.
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Exactly. It’s the 90/10 rule: if 90% of your posts are interacting with general topics but sometimes you post a Today’s View from your theatrical tour or a Victory post because you just got accepted for a gallery exhibit, that’s not spam, that’s just news. It’s when the posts are constantly just what you’re up to the spam part starts.
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Not sure I like the doubling thing. If someone’s a positive member except for a day every two months they might need a timeout, that becomes an effectively permanent ban in just a little over a year. Gotta leave room for the human factor, everyone gets a little testy now and then, not sure at what point that becomes permaban-worthy. Punishment should fit the offense.
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I think bans happen when people come on who are total trolls and bad actors. Long time participants I think we handle with suspensions except for things like doxxing another user or threatening them.
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I’m just saying the suspension-doubling rule may become effectively a ban faster than people may realize
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Unless it resets after a certain period of time. Not that I have any idea how complex that would be in practice, here.
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That reminds me of a recent story in Wired by BB’s Mark Frauenfelder - he lost the password to a bitcoin account and every time he guessed wrong, the time delay before he could guess again was doubled. I don’t think it’s a spoiler to say that caused him a great deal of stress;
We have to remember at least one reason we’re all here; the capricious and draconian suspension policies of that other board. I thought this would be a place for freer discussion, but so far, I’ve seen it moving towards being more restrictive.
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Most of those rules are specific to skepticism—particularly extraordinary claims—or tied to western formal debate in a way that, when combined with the Skeptic ones, give an air of being unwelcome to anyone with a spiritual belief.
TOP didn’t have those rules but several people tried to socially enforce those rules anyway. That drove off some people who were perfectly awesome people who weren’t trying to argue anything but were instead just talking about their experiences or a related hobby.
What we put in the code of conduct can send a message about our own biases and who is welcome.
If we put extraordinary claims in the rules (without at the very least being much more specific about where it applies), it’s likely going to have a chilling effect on anyone who does have a non-materialistic belief even if the intention is only to keep people from using it in an argument.
If they want people to continue engaging with them in that argument, sure they need to give the other person an argument they can care about. I can’t tell you that you must use the Discordian page numbering system and seriously expect you to comply if I don’t have an argument that matters to you. (“Malaclypse the 2nd said so!”) I’m not sure we need a rule for that, though.
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It’s a good point – and it also raises the point that some people sea lion as a way to shut people down.
Then again, some people spout crap to shut people down too. It’s a hard call.
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It could only double when mods decide their patience is exhausted?
Or it could increase by x percent instead of doubling?
I’m just saying five days seems like a lot, for a first conviction. I wouldn’t start with five days.
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We could decide on a common internet practice, such as editing posts, and arbitrarily ban people for it.
Re: “Avoidance”: is there some way to make this immediately visible?
In The Other Place, someone suggested I cease contact, and I obliged with the understanding that it was reciprocal.
From that point in, I had to be very careful of who I liked, and they did reply to one of my posts at one point before realizing and deleting the post.
This could be avoided by some sort of UI flag.
Re: porn:
As long as NSFW content is spoilered and tagged, I have no objection to it.
Re: doubling ban length:
My suggestion would be that, if the suspension is for something new, out should be the same length as the previous ban. If it’s a ban for a repeat of the same reason, double it.
I also think (despite my answer to the poll) that there is a need for a permanent ban, for inexcusable behavior (true threats, spam/malware, etc.).
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True, but there’s a vast difference between a tendency to abuse power and not having any boundaries in place at all.
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This is a tough one. I have no easy way to reconcile other peoples faith with my ostensibly rational beliefs, but I know I would be that much poorer for isolating myself from such conversations.
Civility is certainly desired though, certainly more than being able to itemize and document everything we believe in.
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