Genderbender: Sexual Identity and Gender Identity

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medically it is where not only does your gender not fit in with societies expectations but you body feels wrong too.

It’s hard to explain how it is from my point of view. I have described it as being a little like phantom limb syndrome, except I have a sensation of having something there that shouldn’t be there. Most of the trans men I know have similar feelings about having female breasts.

I’m not a fan of the woman in a mans body description. From my point of view I am a woman in a woman’s body, except I got the wrong hormones at critical points in my development. Trying to explain that to someone who doesn’t understand intersex is difficult though.

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It also doesn’t fit the experience of everyone that is trans*. One of the reasons I didn’t figure out about myself until just a few years ago was that I was only hearing that description, which just didn’t match up with my own internal feeling. Until I met other genderqueer/fluid people, I wasn’t sure what to make of these feelings, except to know that while I didn’t want to be female full time, I was mostly identifying as male out of default.

Potential TMI warning

I do have some degree of gender dysphoria, but it’s kind of subtle. I knew I was fine with having the OEM genitals that I already had, but something still didn’t quite feel right to me about how I was using them. I did not enjoy receiving oral sex and while I enjoyed “giving” penetrative sex, it always left me with some degree of detachment. (Essentially: yeah, this feels good, but something isn’t quite right …)

Last year one of my sweeties and I were listening to an interview of Lee Harrington. While discussing safer sex practices with transgendered people, Lee made a remark about how many transwomen that have not had bottom surgery can’t use condoms because of the mental disconnect using that organ as a penis causes. In essence, it is a clit. That was a serious “light bulb” moment for me! It really explained so much about my feelings and allowed me to alter practices with partners such that I don’t have that detachment feeling.

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I would describe it as a two dimensional chart where most people gravitate towards 1,0 or 0,1 but any individual could be anywhere on it. I don’t know if that is making it too complex or over-simplifying it though.

I was talking about what gender dysphoria means for me, but I get what you mean. I knew a few people who were gender fluid and getting treatment when I started transitioning (although they didn’t tell the GIC about their identity). One was experimenting to find the right hormone levels for them and had no desire for surgery.

More TMI stuff

I can’t have sex. Physically there is nothing stopping me but I can’t cope with the difference between where my brain expects things to be and where they actually are. Hopefully that will change post surgery, but until I can find a surgeon who will operate on me I won’t know (There is a slightly increased risk of things going wrong because of health reasons, but everyone seems to act like it is a 100% chance of death).

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Up through grade school my son really had a thing for business suites and brief cases. For his 8th birthday we bought him a three piece suite, a leather briefcase (with lock very important) and his birthday was in a rented limo. We just drove around Portland for the day. He just wanted his best friend there so there was no fighting over who got to stand through the sun roof. I think to this day that is still his favorite birthday. We really were worried we might have a real Alex P Keaton situation. Thankfully for us he is only conservative in his manner of dress and behavior.

I liked some nerdy things but I wasn’t nerdy enough to fit in with the nerds nor did I get confused as being one. To be fair to all the people that ever got bullied growing up for one of the many reasons. I wasn’t. I had it relatively easy. I fit in from the perspective of everyone one else as just a regular kid. All of my issues were in my head. I could see all the ways I wasn’t like all the other kids even if they couldn’t.

And for me, I always felt laying low and not drawing attention was the best way for the other kids to not figure out I didn’t speak their language. As you said, staying on the fringe felt safer. In fact I hate birthdays even now because I don’t want to be at an event where I am the focus. I hate it. if I am forced to have a party I try and make it a multi person birthday since someone else will usually be happy to take all the attention.

Good lord, I hadn’t thought about that but yes, me too.

Yes and no. It sounds like our particular problem isn’t with the physical expression of our birth gender it is with the culture we live in that has tried to strictly define how everyone should think, feel and behave. It is a small subset of what transgender folks must go through. But as you mentioned, being on the fringe gives one empathy for other’s on the fringe regardless of why or how they arrived here.

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This pretty much exactly describes my childhood experience. Played soccer, was in Cub Scouts, watched A-Team and Dukes of Hazard, all the typical boy stuff. But with a librarian mom I spent more and more time at the library, often going through the “000” section (UFOs, cryptozoology, supernatural, etc) and got a reputation as a skinny effeminate weirdo. When everyone’s telling you how strange/gay you are (while bullying you), it’s easy to believe them.

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I’m finding it fascinating that reading, especially about UFOs and the supernatural, got labelled “effeminate”. I was into the same stuff – plus read SF instead of romances – and was constantly told that was all “for boys”.

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To be clear, I didn’t walk around middle school with UFO books – I often had fantasy or sci-fi books however. The combination of not being sporty, being a bookworm, wearing deeply unfashionable clothes, being beanpole-skinny with bifocals, and unconsciously doing ‘girly’ things like having limp wrists or sitting with my legs crossed was more than enough to make me the class weirdo/gay (same thing when you’re in middle school in the 80s).

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Cheaper, and perhaps filled with fewer insufferable academics. Don’t get me wrong, I’m married to one, but they can be maddening.

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Without any agenda, I want to say thank you to those of you who have shared experiences here. This is one of the most enlightening threads I’ve ever read. I like to pat myself on the back for being a “Safe Zone Ally” at a large, southern US university – I like to think I’m open and enlightened. One of the bravest things I’ve ever seen is a transgendered person describing their experience walking across campus at said university, and I subsequently went and read all sorts of research (hazards of the librarian trade: hear something, look that shit up in academic journals). But reading and attending campus events only does so much. What is shared here is real in a way that shatters. So, thank you. I know you have to do it again and again and it’s tiresome, but I really, really appreciate your willingness to do so.

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I’d like to second @Jilly, this has given me a better idea of range of what being trans means.

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I triple.

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Not quite sure where to share this and I don’t want to start a self-indulgent thread over it, but is it normal for two people who are a bit nervous about a first date to openly reassure each other about being nervous? If it helps, we’ve known each other for almost 20 years and I’ve had a crush on her for the last 15 years or so. To kind of make it fit, she certainly knew me long before I started identifying as NB. This is my first time going out with someone whom I wasn’t already dating before I changed that identity.

Background, from a post I made on FetLife. (Probably about as SFW as anything else here on HMS …)

Why I don’t understand a lot of popular culture
Journal Entry | 4 Comments · 7 Love It | 10 days ago

The plots of so many shows, movies, hell even songs revolve around someone agonizing over choosing between two people, or simply not sharing information with someone they love. I’ve found that the longer my life goes on, the less I can relate to that.

At Tryst this year, I found there was a possibility for a more intimate relationship with a friend whom I’ve had a quiet crush on for … well, for longer than I’ve been in kink, actually. I’m a bit scared to do the actual math, but I’m pretty sure it’s something like 15 years or so! I had sealed away that crush, as I didn’t think it had a chance to go anywhere, and, mixing my metaphor, apparently it’s been smoldering a bit.

We’d had opportunity to play a little, albeit in a somewhat restricted fashion. When I found out that some of our previous limits weren’t there anymore, that I was able to kiss her, holder her tightly, caress her, and … well, do a lot more than I could previously … that smolder? Well, it flamed rather hotly. For some of the wild-ass kinky shit I get up to sometimes, it’s kind of funny to talk about how much simply holding her hand caused my heart to flutter. (The partner that was attending Tryst with me was very happy for us and actively encouraged me.)

Now I’m no stranger to NRE, so I’m perfectly willing to go at a pace to keep everyone happy and comfortable, but that does sometimes feed the brain weasels. One of the ways I’ve been coping with those weasels is discussing my emotions with the partner I’ve lived with for the past 13 years. Earlier in the week, I told her of the anxieties I was experiencing and she talked me through some of them.

Last night, the friend / potential new partner and I were chatting a bit online and became a bit schmoopy. Afterwards, I told the partner I live with about it and we were both very happy and affectionate over the developments. Oddly enough, that’s so far off of the model from popular culture that I don’t even know where to start!

Communication, honestly, and openness. It’s a crazy concept, kids! It also means that writers, at least in mass media, would have to come up with a new plot.

Book recommendation: Stepping Off the Relationship Escalator: Uncommon Love and Life by Amy Gahran.

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After checking in with our respective partners, and quite a bit of flirting and serious talks via chat, we’re going out this week. One of our priorities is to discus what we’re comfortable being for one another. I know we’re both fine with “friends that play at events,” but while that’s the starting point of that line segment, I’m not sure where it ends. We’ll see, I guess …

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Changing the dynamics of a long running relationship can be scary. All the “What ifs” a person can imagine can start to make a person doubt if it’s worth it. That you two can share your fears and console each other is I think a healthy sign of a good thing. If after all these years you couldn’t share your fears and couldn’t reassure each other would be worrisome.

ETA: Different context but after having dated someone on the other side of the planet for the better part of a year. When we finally were able to schedule to meet in person it was terrifying. Here was a person that knew my inner most intimate thoughts and yet we had never done the most basics things like be in the same room or held hands or laughed together much less what we were excitedly planning to do. We too both confessed to being afraid of the same things and both helped each other push through and go for it. Love > Fear.

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There’s some stuff in your post that interests me about the kink stuff. Not even sure where to begin asking about that?? probably not on the work computer, for sure. Interested in some actual education on it and not just bodice ripper stuff.

As far as your question about your friend, I have friends who recently got married after a similar situation (though no kinky stuff before hand, as for as I know). But they were friends since high school; he’d crushed on her forever, and then finally around age 40 the spark grew into a fire.

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I’ll answer pretty much any question that doesn’t involve someone else’s private information without their permission! I’m always open to PMs if it comes to that. If I can’t answer, or at least give my perspective on something, I can probably direct you to other resources.

I doubt that this will end up in a marriage, seeing as how she’s already happily married, although oddly enough it might end up with a tighter circle of friends. We all used to belong to a fairly strong group, but some members, including her husband, drifted away over the years. The three of us attended a friend’s wake together a few weeks ago, and realized that we should all start doing something about not having the only time we see those old friends is when we go to say goodbye.

Well, that turned somber … sorry about that.

That does lead me into sharing a strange happy moment in the middle of the wake, though. Since our connection is new, we’re being cautious around our metamours until we’ve all had time to renew our friendships, especially in this new development. That means, while we are kissing and holding hands, we’re doing so in a fairly low key manner.

During the wake, people were standing up and talking about our departed friend. I had already spoke (I had officiated at his and his husband’s commitment ceremony) and when I sat back down, she indicated that I should pull my chair up close behind hers. I sat behind her, with one hand on her shoulder and another on her hip, holding her right hand. I noticed at that moment that she was also touching her husband, holding his hand. I can’t say how happy that made me, this little cozy circle of love. We were saying goodbye to a friend and comforting his husband, but I can well imagine the grin that would have put on his face to see us in a little huddle like that.

Yeah, I’m full of NRE right now too … :smiley:

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You know, it doesn’t sound “normal” but it does sound healthy. Normal is super fucking overrated.

You were kind and empathetic to me when I was going through some deep dark shit, so I will always view you through that lens. Did I thank you? If I didn’t, please know that you have my absolute undying gratitude. Said deep dark shit has mostly been worked out, because I embraced radical (frightening) honesty.

If you are reassuring each other, that means you’re being open and honest with each other. That’s outside the norm, but it’s BETTER than what our culture calls “normal”. Fuck normal, go for happy!

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My brain really must be NRE clouded right now, I usually don’t say “normal” unless I’m talking about database forms! (Sorry, development joke …)

You did, but you needed help, so I offered help. It’s part of my nature an it would be easier for me to stop breathing than to not do that! That said, I’m very glad to know that it’s getting worked out.

We’re being open and honest with each other as well as with our current partners. It’s not always easy to step off that ledge, but it’s always been better than the alternatives, at least to me. For me, I’m finding that not only do I get another wonderful partner to share my love with, but I’m very much reminded of why I love my existing partners so much. It’s not that I’ve forgotten the things I love about them, but I’m seeing them anew.

Open and honest …

The partner I live with is asexual, while I am not. I told her the other night that I do miss playing with her in that sense, but I’d rather have her be authentic to herself than to do something just because I want to do it. I still get her in my life, and that’s far more important to me.

At the camp I described above, the partner that was with me and I were working through some emotional land mines that I discovered buried in my brain from a long ago relationship. During our conversation, I agreed that they are often difficult, whiny, and weepy. They hugged me and thanked me for that, as they’ve been in relationships where “Oh, no, that’s not true …” would be said, and they know better than that. Again, honesty!

(I then noted that I’m also often difficult! They agreed and we both were happy about it!)

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A little acronym help for those of us not in the lifestyle?

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Oh, sorry – NRE is New Relationship Energy. It’s that bubbly everything is rainbows and flowers feeling you have when you start a new relationship. In Stepping Off the Relationship Escalator, Amy Gahran defines it:

The strong surge of emotion, energy, excitement, giddiness and often obsession that can accompany the start of a new intimate relationship. Sometimes called the pink fluffy stupids.

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I seriously relate, I have to restrain myself frequently when consuming various media from just going, “hey imaginary characters, all your problems seem to be related to the fact that you’ve never thought about what kind of relationship you really want and what your personal needs and boundaries really are. You need to be honest with yourself and your partners.” Actually I do yell that at the TV alot.

Communication for the win.

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