That distinction is central to individualism. But it does not address collectivism or other systems where a person’s sexual ethics are not necessarily based upon anyone’s wants or desires. I made this distinction in the original post, but people seem to miss it, so they can re-explain what individualism means.
Maybe it’s a symptom of overton window shift, but feminism and other civil rights issues tend to be towards the left of most contemporary political discourse. But insistance that that should be all about “the indidividual” makes it a liberal/centrist discussion, and excludes those on the far left. What feminism means for those of us is a discussion I think is worth having, but it does not seem to be welcome here.
The far left is collective individualism; ie, people with the ultimate personal liberty choosing to work together. On the far right, centralized collectivism, wherein people have no personal liberty and are mandated to work together.
Consent is central to liberty. And consent is not up for discussion.
(I’m aware my choice of terms are less than precise. I’n not looking to derail the topic; feel free to use the share menu to fork a new topic if the rabbit hole of spectrum spelunking one must go)
Communists don’t believe in rape and other forms of physical assault, then? That would be news to all the ones in my acquaintance. From what I remember of Marx’s writings, it would be news to him too.
By trying to make rape about “individualism” (WTAF), you’re gliding right by the assault part.
Umm, OK… I am not going to argue it with you. But a search shows that even excluding your posts and mine, consent has been mentioned 31 times in this topic. So it seems that some people are indeed discussing it here. I will leave you to deal with them.
For people responding to each other, here’s an idea for us to try. One of the central tenants of a lot of the communication theory I’m exploring is that we don’t really know what the other person is trying to communicate. We need to be more curious about what people are trying to express and less sure of their intentions toward us.
What I am reading is people who are trying to engage with each other, but there’s a lot of reading between the lines, jumping to conclusions, judging, and labeling.
I would like to see more curiosity expressed to really understand what each other is saying without assuming so much that you know what point the other person is making.
So, instead of saying, “You obviously mean this,” one thing to try is a formula like:
When you write "block quote here"
What I interpreted that as saying is blah blah blah.
I’ve been having go-rounds on FB with some of my more… shall we say, “easy to influence” friends, as they are reading his damn book and are all “No you guys, some of his advice is really good”. This medium piece does a great job breaking down his appeal.
“Cultural Marxism” is a snarl word used to paint anyone with progressive tendencies as a secret Communist. The term alludes to a conspiracy theory in which sinister left-wingers have infiltrated media, academia, and science and are engaged in a decades-long plot to undermine Western culture.
So basically, if you’re a feminist, or gay, or dare to oppose anything about “traditional western culture” by say being non-white, you’re a cultural marxist. LOL
When I realized it was just a conspiracy theory… my estimation of the people that use the term dropped considerably, and it was never very high to start with! LOL
This is fascinating – like wow, people, most of whom are not old enough to remember the 50s (hell, a lot of their parents aren’t old enough to remember the 50s) are playing something right out of the McCarthy era.
Makes me want to dig out my copy of Howl and re-read it.
Any sentence that has “Dworkin” and “relationship with” in it is probably going to result in “not pretty”. Don’t get me wrong, she had a lot of illuminating things to say, but sometimes it feels like her purpose in life was to illuminate all the painful and ugly ideas in the world. I always feel a bit sorry for her.
Maybe it’s not good optics, but I think we should infiltrate and take over. Also, complaints about Karltural Marx tend to be a US thing, which I tend to need to remind people is not a Western (European) culture, it is a colonial culture.
