Not Feminism 101

Politics
186

Too true, and then there are the people who just can’t stop. I broke off a friendship because, six months after she was laid off, someone couldn’t stop dishing dirt about management and trying to pump me for details. And no, she said she wasn’t suing.

I always see it as a matter of tone. “Huh, A & B are having meetings a lot, wonder when we’re going to find out what that’s about” is a lot different from “A & B have been awfully cosy lately, haven’t they?”

They’re both gossip, but the first one is more intent to speculate while the other is more intent to imply something malicious.

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187

In my experience, men gossip at least as much as women do. I call 'em out on it if it sounds remotely destructive. They’re embarrassed as hell to be accused of gossiping; it’s kinda funny to see them backpedal.

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188

Sometimes what seems to be dishy can be helpful, too. There are certain people who everybody seems to like, but I have gotten a negative vibe off of, and it’s a relief to hear when someone else has picked up the same thing. Sometimes it can also help avoid a toxic person – more than once, a coworker has tried to gaslight me, and if it weren’t for “gossip” I might have believed it. Not everything that seems “trashy” is… There are complicating elements even there.

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189

I’ve worked in male dominated spaces my entire career. Men definitely gossip, and possibly more than women, but they never call it gossip.

I’m glad you call them out, men need to be called out for engaging in behaviors they castigate women for doing.

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190

Oh yeah, there are totally complicating elements. Like when I found out the “barbecues” colleagues were holding and which I was hurt about not being invited to turned out to be swing parties :wink:. Gossip about the parties made me realise they weren’t being cold, but considerate.

And then sometimes the toxic person is the gossip, which is educational in the end as well.

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191

um, what, your work colleagues were having swing parties?

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192

Some of them, yes. Not where I work now, not even the career I have now. But yes.

The way I found out was someone asked me if I was going to the next “barbecue”. I said no, I hadn’t been invited. They replied, “well, I was invited, but I don’t really want to have sex with them, so I’m not going.”

Edit: that led to a longer conversation of course, but you get the idea.

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193

Wow, okay, there’s networking and then there is…really getting to know one another.

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194

We discussed some similar ideas on the old place back in the day: “How can women disrupt male speech domination?” I found a 2014 article on Model View Culture discussing one aspect of this as well: “Workplace Harassment, Reporting, and the Whisper Network”

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195

C’mon, GG. Give us the details.:wink:

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196

There’s not much since I never went. This was right in the middle of when my ex was really going off the rails – I was having to ask people to watch my class while I talked him out of committing suicide, only for him to claim when he said he was going to commit suicide because no-one took him seriously and his life had no meaning, he didn’t mean for me to take him seriously about the suicide part. And he’s saying all this knowing perfectly well I was teaching a group of people who included individuals with fragile mental health, and that everyone at work got coached on handling people who seemed to be contemplating suicide. And that therefore him doing it would most definitely push my buttons.

You know, regular couples stuff /s. :thinking:

So that was happening, and then because my ex had by that time claimed he was “thinking of” cheating on me (probably already had), people at work knew I’m into monogamy. They knew because I’d come into work looking like death warmed over a few too many times, so they asked what was going on. The person I talked to the most was one of the people organising the parties, and she said she wasn’t into monogamy herself but she was respected my preferences (and was a really awesome listener).

So between the domestic dumpster fire of a relationship and my own stated preferences, I never got invited to these parties, though I took part in after-work drinks and all that sort of thing.

Honestly, although I knew I wasn’t into participating, knowing it was happening made me feel better, because it meant there were people who were honest about communication, emotional security, and mutual respect.

Mostly that was gossip about myself, but that’s all I’ve got. The swingers were all mature and respectable about it.

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197

That feeling when a smartass comment gets a better reply than it deserved.:grin:

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198

Sorry, I’ve been working since 8am except for meal breaks (it’s 11pm here now), and my wits are about as sharp as Jell-o.

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199

I gotta admit, not knowing anything else about the workplace (or even what industry it might be in), I’m kinda jealous about that office. Part of me is sad to assume that I’ve never worked with a group of people who would ever organize such a thing, and part of me is really sad to assume that I already did and never got wind of it.

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200

“All I would ask,” she said, “is that you make up your mind. If you don’t have children, don’t have them because you chose not to have them. Don’t let time make your mind up for you.”

This article made me cry. As a woman who has chosen not to have children, I know what it’s like to be treated like a monster and a fool.

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201

It’s like no matter what choices we make and how strongly we feel about them, we’re punished for them! Depressing.

Just so you know, as a person who decided to have a kid, I think there is NOTHING wrong with deciding NOT to have children. We shouldn’t be defined by our biology, ever. I support your choice, no matter what it is.

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202

There’s the third situation too: people who didn’t want kids but got pregnant and abortion/adoption wasn’t available (either for lack of resources or family pressures), or people who wanted kids but never got to. As someone in the last category, it annoys me a lot when people jump to, “why did you decide not to have kids?” or “why don’t you like kids?” without bothering to ask “did you want kids?” first.

I don’t like “do you like kids?” either, simply because it’s ridiculous to like or dislike someone based on their age. I’ve met kids I thought were fabulous; I’ve met kids I thought were jerks. That they were kids had nothing to do with it.

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203

Totally agreed. For some, having or not having children isn’t a choice at all.

Like you, I’ve met kids who I just didn’t like, because they were jerks.

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204

You’ll feel differently when you have your own.

Yeah, no, fuck off. From medical professionals telling me that I would change my mind (unlikely, Dr. F., but you do realise there’s this thing called adoption, right?) to mommies raving on about the awesome oxytocin hit (you do realise that if I ever get that desperate, it’s cheaper and easier just to do drugs, yes?), people assuming that I just needed to meet the right man, and was making excuses (no, not that lacking in anyone in my life, thanks), that I was just naive (no, just realistic about my personality and the fact that based on my experience with kids, I don’t actually like them), and yes, somehow abandoning my “natural role” as a woman…

If there’s a biological alarm clock, I must be very good at ignoring it. Kittens are cute. Puppies are cute. Foals and calves and baby giraffes are cute. Babies… are not cute. I literally have to scroll-past baby pictures, sometimes, not because of any sense of regret, but the messy, drooly shots that everyone else cries about being “the cutest thing ever” literally turn my stomach.

But I am also old enough to be confident enough to say to anyone that has a problem with that: “kiss my ass”. And I will fight to defend a person’s choices in that matter – pro-choice to me goes beyond abortion. Abortion is part of it, but the bigger problem is the parental mandate in our culture.

And I got lucky. Neither my sister or I decided to have kids, and our parents are okay with that. I want to rage every time I hear someone say “I can’t wait until I am a grandparent,” and cry when someone talks about the pressures from parents and in-laws “to give us grandchildren.”

Quite the rant, and I apologise, but this is one of those topics that is guaranteed to set me off. Possibly because the opportunity to say these things and not be treated as a monster or a traitor to my sex/race*/species is rare.

*Why, yes, I have been told that white people are in danger of becoming extinct and that I am not helping. To which I say: if you think I am going to have kids to save the “white race” you are out of your godsdamned bloody fucking mind. And jump off a fucking bridge while you’re at it, assholes. Preferably a high one.

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205

Do not apologize. You have nothing to apologize for in your rant here, it’s all spot on. Your choices are just that, yours. As long as you’re not shitting over the choices of others, people should absolutely shut the fuck up and not assume that you’ve made the wrong one. As someone who is a parent, I have no reason to believe that your choices are somehow “wrong” just because they aren’t the same I made. I don’t walk in your shoes and I just assume that you’ve made the choices you wanted or needed to make in your life and as much as I can, I fully support them. Because why wouldn’t I?

Let’s not forget this shit, either. Fuck the whole cult of pure white womanhood right in the fucking ear.

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