That was a great story.
My one regret is that the fella, by performing what should be the bare minimum of humanity and decency, turns out to be a remarkable and unforgettable mensch.
My hat is off to him, but goddammit his behavior SHOULD be as common and non-noteworthy as a standard please-and-thank-you.
And I bet he agrees with me.
Mine too; like how shitty is the state of our existence that simply not being an opportunistic predator needs to be looked at as some heroic act?
Pretty damn shitty.
Nevertheless, I remember and revere David for acting like good men are supposed to…
Thread:
I have to confess that that was my first thought when the latest allegations against Kavanaugh came out, as well; I knew that the danger was always there, certainly, but I couldn’t conceive that something like what Swetnick described could be so prevalent, that guys could literally line up outside a door for “their turn” to rape someone, that it would seem so normal that no one would stop it. That you wouldn’t even just leave a party where it was happening, because that’s just what happened at parties. That you would basically have to shut yourself into your dorm room to avoid things like that.
That’s… That’s so horrific that I am unable to find adequate words to describe it.
The sheer number of people who would be complicit in such a thing…
My mind just refuses to wrap around it.
From what I’ve read, rapists convince themselves it’s normal… although of course this person’s equating grinding with drugging and raping…
I don’t know who this is…
Not that long ago, and possibly coming round again.
Also:
If you are at a North American university (and beyond, I’m sure) that doesn’t have some extremely narrow “moral code” (and those are highly problematic), if you are a woman who wants to date or even just hang out with men at all, you will be at risk of being raped.
Understand that most rapists seem at least semi-okay until they assault, or until soon before they assault. They might seem a little “off” but not dangerous, nothing you could claim with confidence was a red flag.
So basically unless you are a gold star lesbian or absolutely determined to be a nun from the moment you hit adolescence, you will be in risky situations. Often.
And since, with any luck, you won’t be raped for most of them, you may well start to think you’re safe, everything is okay, you’ve got in with a crowd of decent people.
Until they’re not, and then it’s too late.
Yep; if you’re born with a vagina, you’re always at risk of being sexually assaulted at some point in life. Even if you are a ‘shut-in’ who “never leaves their house.”
That’s precisely what rape culture is.
I went to a really party hardy school and I never saw people lining up for a train. That is really a bridge too far. I, personally, had to wonder that this was a regular thing at their HIGH SCHOOL.
It was extremely common to see men pressing drinks into women’s hands at parties, to the point that during my Senior year, when I quit smoking, and therefore limited my drinking to about a drink or 2 a party, I would come prepared with a large soda in my hand so I would have something to drink and in my hand to avoid being plied with drink.
I cannot recall ever being a party, where there was open sexual activity other than, say, people making out.The only time I ever saw that was at a Rolling Stones concert - some very drunk biker chick and a bunch of guys around here.
EDIT: Of course when there were parties at frat houses and houses people would go off to the rooms.
I’ve never heard the term “train”. But “get girls into a room where it’s only you and her”, yeah, often.
I could see it being a regular thing in some pockets of society.
I went from a progressive Catholic high school strong on alternative/counterculture (the religion department was basically run by unreconstructed hippies) to a conservative university overrun by spoiled, entitled preppies. It wasn’t so much about the parties themselves as the constant attitude. How I avoided getting raped again? I wouldn’t establish a relationship with anyone who asked, by way of introduction, what kind of car my parents drove. That was their way of establishing income/status/power dynamic.
I remember pledges (when I was in the dorms) talking about that, at least one of them remarking with extreme disgust, but nothing more than that, ethically speaking. 1990
Mere possession of one, regardless of when obtained, is enough.
Though it was consensual and not rape, such a thing happened at my high school; there was a line of boys outside a bathroom by the gym waiting to get a blow job from a girl who was “infamous” for pulling such stunts.
In high school and college around my way, it was called ‘running a train’ on a girl.
I hate it that I know such things, but alas…
Fair point; not all women are born that way.
Two entirely different thoughts:
I wonder if there might be a socio-economic class distinction between which gazelles – I mean, teen girls – were singled out, at least some of the time. So girls from the ‘right’ families might have had a sense that they were safe as long as they didn’t protest what was happen to those other girls.
When I worked as a rape counselor, I had one shift where I went straight from a 9yo who was walking the block from her home to the local ma-and-pa store to pick up cigarettes for her mom to a 67yo who was grabbed off the street and pulled into a building. Ultimately, it doesn’t matter what you’re wearing, or what you look like, or how old you are, or whether or not you’ve been drinking.
I feel like the narrative around the party rape misses a lot of nuance.
As a young woman, yes, I liked going to parties. I enjoyed the thrill of the chase. I liked the idea that I might “score.” Like the men, there was a certain pride that I took in who I slept with or fooled around with. Somewhere I have a rather embarrassing list of guys with a little mark next to the ones I actually had intercourse with.
Hey - kill me - I was a young woman and I wanted to have fun.
And now that I am a middle age - I am SO GLAD that I had fun when I was young, had a smoking hot bod, and it was the time of life when I could stay up until 4 in the morning at bars and parties.
I also remember as a young Freshwoman that there was a group of very wealthy and predatory men who took advantage of how inexperienced we were with drinking. I remember how exciting it was to be 18 years old and get into bars without even an ID check (New Orleans - you can still do this!). I remember how the older girls who were schooling us in the ways of the world had this cute name for the guys who would rape you: Mackers. Guys would mack on you. It almost sounded cool and hip. I remember how, come October, there was this one bathroom where the Freshman girls started writing the names of the men to avoid, and we all started to draw away from the Mackers and got serious about having a friend who made sure we were safe before they left the party.
So it wasn’t quite like someone stealing your stuff, because in a way, you liked it. In a way, you went to the party to get a little drunk and a little crazy and flirty. But, there’s still a line where someone is passed out drunk and totally unable to give consent - and I have personally witnessed that (almost) happen (to my roommate, who was at the point of the guy taking her panties off and she was totally passed out) and it is CLEARLY passed the point where she is having any fun, or anything to do with it at all.
This on the heels of the India Supreme Court smashing the anti-gay law.
That my dear, is an asshole, and that’s all we need to know about them…
“normal heterosexual behavior” my ass…
I think you hit the nail on the head.
There’s a metaphor I was told about when I was a teacher. It was for women teachers, about how to deal with unwanted advances from colleagues, student crushes, how to conduct oneself to avoid accusations (or worse, do something wrong), and so on.
The instructor put it like this: Picture a person playing baseball in the park with some friends. They’re standing in outfield, paying attention to the game, and this other person walks up and whacks them on the head with a baseball bat!
The person who got hit says, “I was assaulted.”
The person who hit them says, “I was playing baseball.”
Girls going to parties, flirting, getting laid, and all the rest has NOTHING to do with assault. There is no “grey area” if you know what consensual sex looks like, same as there is no “grey area” if you know what a baseball game looks like.
And even though my relationship with my future second rapist (words I never imagined I’d ever type, much less think of typing) was followed by a very wonderful intimate relationship with my musical partner, I’m still affected.
I’m afraid to have sex with anyone, much less kiss them. Because the odds are 50-50 in my mind that any man I let get that close to me could try something in the future. Even if the odds are actually much less than that. And I used to be a very sexual woman. Now, when I see love scenes in films, I feel a curious mixture of detachment and embarrassment: What are they doing and why are they doing it?
That makes me cry (I mean while I’m typing this, lol, totally unexpected, it just HIT me). Bloody hell, folks; but I’m glad that I can state these things in this forum. Thank you.
I can absolutely relate.
