Over/Under-rated movies: the redux

Okay, I’m about to try to work some overtime. Forget the client who’s ducking me for now, because eff him.

I need some middle-of-the-road films to occupy me while I paint (I use a streaming site). Any recommendations?

I recently watched Commuter, which was perfect. Action fluff that didn’t really demand too much brainpower, so it didn’t take me out of the zone. Molly’s Game was a different story. Idris Elba is too mesmerizing, and I wound up not doing much.

Right now, I’m about to see if I can find The Abominable Dr. Phibes, which I’ve never seen before.

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That is a sign of an insecure instructor. If she wanted to assert her authority, she could have easily said much the same thing on your thread and then rhymed off several early films to pad her point.

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Good choice. Failing that, I think the similarly veined Theater of Blood is even better!

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I love films from the 1930s and have seen scores of them (perhaps into the hundreds) since I started watching TCM as a kid. Many I revisit, the sign that something really resonated with me. So pure age or quality (or quality of the transfer) is not an issue for me, as it may be for the average modern movie watcher.

But I have never been able to “do” silent films. It’s not that I haven’t watched any, I have - I can definitely appreciate the stunt work of Harold Lloyd, for example, though the surrounding bits can be hard to get through.

But I have never been able to get through a Chaplin or Keaton movie, or any other silent masterpieces I’ve tried to watch (i.e. all of the well-known ones), or pure entertainments like Wings, which is right up my alley in so many ways (I did love the recreation of the making of that depicted in The Aviator). I did manage to watch Metropolis, and I appreciate it, but it took several tries.

It doesn’t help that these usually come on late at night on TCM, but even mid-day, silent movies reliably make me fall asleep.

However, in college I took a class on the Japanese director Yasujiro Ozu, who started working in film in the early 1920s, and directed his first film in 1927. Japan’s first talkie was in 1931, but Ozu continued to make silent films for an astonishing five further years until 1936.

His first silent masterpiece, I Was Born, But…, was made in 1932. I watched it (and a couple other of his silent films) for the class and was blown away. I was fully engrossed in it, in a way I never was (and still have never been) with American silent films.

I think it’s partly the fact that I wouldn’t be able to understand the actors even if I could hear them talk that allows it to work for me. But also, Ozu created his own famously rigid film language, and had a subtle but unusual way of framing the actors, and also of directing their acting. All of which somehow comes together into something that is very engrossing even without sound.

I Was Born, But… feels strikingly modern. It doesn’t feel alien like American silent films. My recollections of American silent films retain that alien feeling, but my recollections of Ozu’s silent films are no different from my recollections of American talkies of the 30s (and even later) - I suppose it helps that Ozu’s talkies are so similar in style otherwise that my recollections may be combined. Ozu actually loosely remade it - his own movie - in 1959, with sound and also in color. It is also a masterpiece, but the original sticks with me more.

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I don’t know about the Japanese cinema experience of the 1930s, but I do know how it was in the US, Canada, and the UK (and probably we could spread the net from there). You went to the ticket booth, paid for your ticket, and wandered in. Most likely the film would already be on. You’d stay, chat with your neighbours, watch a bit, and leave when you felt like it.

There’s a cinema in my neighbourhood that’s been open since 1914. They showed silent films to celebrate a re-opening after a reno, and although it was am invitation-only event, friends who knew the owner and knew how I felt about the theatre made sure I got to go.

Every once in a while the people paying attention would react to something and make the rest of us look. The rest of the time you just sort of glanced.

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I don’t remember hating Winter Soldier that much. I know I missed a hulk film, but the low point for me was the 2d Thor movie

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That’s an interesting take on Winter Soldier… The prevailing opinion is that it’s among the top tier of the MCU movies, in that it has a solid storyline, real character motivations and development, a believable villain, and solid action sequences.

But, sure. You want the story, as it relates to the rest of the films?
Needless to say, SPOILERS for the entire Captain America: The Winter Soldier movie below.

Cap finds out that Hydra infiltrated the nascent SHIELD through Operation Paperclip, and has been a Trojan horse within the agency ever since.
Hydra has been fomenting chaos and encouraging war and terrorism, so that people will be more accepting of an authoritarian government which promises to bring order.
Bucky (Cap’s childhood friend who fell off the train after being experimented on by Hydra) survived the fall, and has been used as a brainwashed assassin (the Winter Soldier) by Hydra ever since, to that end.
SHIELD has been building next-generation Helicarriers in order to better deal with superpowered threats, however, Red Skull’s scientist sidekick Arnim Zola wrote an algorithm (“Project Insight”) to sort through SHIELD’s databases and determine who would be a threat to the new order Hydra would be imposing, and is planning on using the Helicarriers to kill them all and seize power.
Fury tried to put the brakes on the launch of the Helicarriers, so he was (apparently) assassinated by the Winter Soldier, but really he just faked his own death after giving the Project Insight data to Cap, who had to go to an old SHIELD base with Widow to decode it.
After learning all of the above, Cap teams up with Falcon (the guy he was running with at the start of the movie) to bring down the Helicarriers, while Black Widow and Fury put the entire SHIELD database on the Internet, decrypted, in order to expose Hydra’s existence, with the unfortunate side effect of completely destroying SHIELD’s credibility and effectively disbanding it.
As the Helicarriers, updated with a new algorithm which causes them to target each other, fall from the sky, Cap and Bucky get into a fistfight aboard one of them, Cap trying to convince Bucky of his true identity, Bucky trying to kill Cap. Cap eventually falls into the water, and is rescued by Bucky, who leaves him on shore and goes to the Captain America exhibit of the museum to try to figure out who he really is.
One of the Helicarriers smashes into the Triskelion (SHIELD headquarters) and seriously injures Grillo (the lead SHIELD/Hydra thug chasing Cap) He’ll show up again in Civil War.
Fury continues playing dead beyond the few people who know he’s alive, the rest of the SHIELD agents disperse to different agencies, and Cap, Widow, and Falcon go on the hunt for both Bucky and for the remaining elements of Hydra.
In a secret Hydra base, Baron Strucker tells his subordinates to sacrifice the other Hydra cells to Cap’s hunt, but they themselves will remain hidden, and keep experimenting with Loki’s sceptre (from the Avengers), which has been used to create two new superbeings, a young man, and his twin sister (who you’ll find out more about in Avengers: Age of Ultron)

So, the TL:DR consequences of the movie: Cap no longer trusts authority, Bucky is on the run and in hiding, slowly regaining his memory of his true identity and trying to reconcile that with all of the shady shit he’s been doing for decades, SHIELD is no longer around to be the first line of defense against superhuman threats, leaving that duty entirely to the Avengers, Fury’s playing dead, and there’s a bunch of pissed off people waiting around for their turn to show up as antagonists in future films. And some of those people have a MacGuffin.

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No problem!

As I said, “The Winter Soldier is the worst” is an unusual take. I didn’t remember the first half dragging that much, but then, I came into it after hearing some very strong positive reviews of it, so maybe I just had better reason to expect it would find its feet eventually.

But yeah, watching Age of Ultron or Civil War without seeing this one would leave you missing a lot, even with the stuff I outlined above.

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For me, the fact that he’s still not wearing a sharp suit and accepting dangerous assignments from M, or cool gadgets from Q.

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It’s bond to happen eventually.

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Interesting to consider how people originally saw silent films. I claim no expert knowledge but my loose understanding is that what you describe was the case only up to about the mid-teens, as films were short (15 minutes or less) and the nickelodeon theaters would play an endless stream of different short films (sometimes with vaudeville-like entertainment like sing-alongs while reels were changed), a direct continuation of vaudeville theater but with the live acts replaced by short films. You wander in off the street when you have a little spare time (or on your way home from work, or while waiting for someone you’re with to finish their appointment nearby, or whatever) and you catch whatever act(s) or film(s) they happen to have running.

When I think of silent film, though, I guess I’m not thinking about nickelodeon short films. Around 1914 is when you get the major shift towards longer-form narrative films, with the first serial film, and then of course The Birth of a Nation, in 1915, changed everything. That one is 2-3 hours long (there are many different edits). You start to see “modern” movie theaters (and movie palaces) around then, which are very different from my understanding of what the nickelodeons were (basically darkened storefronts with primitive seating if they had seats at all).

With those longer-form films, you get set start times, and people paying attention to the entire thing. People casually wandered in and out of films for decades more, of course, but I think the norm changed dramatically in the late teens and through the 20s. It had to have been really variable depending on all kinds of factors, of course.

Obviously you can’t trust what you see in the movies to be truly representative of history, but The Purple Rose of Cairo is all about a woman who goes to movies in the 1930s in a small town, and you get a sense of what the experience might have been like, and it’s really a wonderful film anyway (to watch it now you do have to stomach that it’s a Woody Allen film starring Mia Farrow, though he doesn’t act in it). There’s a Bogdonovich film from 1976 called Nickelodeon that I need to see, that takes place in the early teens and ends with The Birth of a Nation (his 1973 Paper Moon, set in the 30s but not related to movies, is excellent).

The early movie-going experience in Japan was discussed as part of another course I took from the same professor on the more general history of Japanese cinema. My sense is that it was very similar to how it was here, except that they would have seen it as a continuation of their own theater styles instead of from vaudeville, so I suspect the vibe was different, but certainly similar. Cinema was brought there by people who experienced it abroad (probably in the US) in the 1890s (IIRC) and its development closely tracked what was happening in the US.

Coincidentally, in Rochester, NY, where I went to university, there is also a movie theater that has been in continuous operation since 1914; it originally had dirt floors and may have been more-or-less a nickelodeon in the beginning (the building was enlarged at some point, so it’s hard to know what the original layout and seating was like). They used to claim to be the oldest in continuous operation in the US, but that language has softened - must be another one somewhere, not to mention yours in Canada.

I’m curious, since you relate how important the theater is to you, what you’re into that you see there. In college the theater that was important to me was not the 1914 one but instead the one at the George Eastman House (very close to the 1914 theater actually), which has a major film archive (and film conservation school) and besides playing old films from the archive also has modern art and independent and documentary films doing the circuit, and e.g. new restoration prints that the studios put out, etc. Now I have access to the Stanford Theater in Palo Alto, which is excellent (and gives you a true 1930s experience for e.g. Astaire/Rogers films), but they tend not to show a wide breadth of films. They’re currently doing a Hitchcock festival, which is awesome, except they did practically the exact same festival two years ago… that in itself is not a bad thing - I appreciate that there’s a place that you can go to see the most popular classic movies projected on film year after year - but they just don’t do the deep-cut selections that make the Eastman House or other places (like the Silent Movie Theater in LA) special.

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I don’t think that’s right. Hitchcock had to specify no-one was allowed into the theatre once the opening titles rolled for Psycho, because walking into the middle of a movie was still a thing (Hitch being Hitch he made it a big part of the marketing). Also consider Lee Harvey Oswald didn’t wait to go into the theatre when he was trying to hide from the police after shooting JFK.

Then there’s the scene in Hitchcock’s film Saboteur where people just buy tickets and walk in whenever. That film was made in the 1930s, and the setting is contemporary. If there was a feature on, people would just watch from when they came in to the end, and then watch until they got to the part they’d already seen. Sounds weird, but cinemas would also show the same films for 2-3 months, so you could go more than once and it was no big deal.

As opposed to now, where some films must be seen opening weekend or else you’ll have to wait for streaming.

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It’s a second run/art house theatre (now with a 3d projector, woo!), but it’s not so much the films as the cinema and its patrons.

They still have the stained glass Candy sign hanging in the back from when refreshments were sold right in the theatre, during the silent era. Before the reno, they had old notices of special events from the 30s and 40s. Ladies who attended every Wednesday matinee for a year could buy an entire china dining set, one piece every week.

The patrons are very vocal and participatory. One time a visibly nervous staff member had to tell a packed house the projectionist was late to work, and we all applauded her to let her know we knew it wasn’t her fault. I remember watching Skyfall there, and after a particularly unbelievable stunt some guy in the front yelled out “yeah right!” and we all laughed, even though at another cinema that would annoy most people (including me).

Or the time I saw Capote and got trapped between two elderly couples, neither of whom were in a hurry to leave after. I wound up chatting with one pair. They were thrilled younguns (ha) like me had read In Cold Blood, and told me what it was like following the original news story as it happened. Eventually the other couple joined in, and we discussed the film, the real-life events, and the book until the ushers kicked us out.

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You know, I’m probably projecting my own habits onto the past. I do know that people walked in whenever as late as the 70’s, probably even later, though there is some point where that stopped being normal (people do still do it today). I remember Saboteur, and walking in after the movie starts is depicted regularly in dozens of other films through to today, so by my own logic using The Purple Rose of Cairo as an example, I should know this. I’m not convinced that the majority of people didn’t show up on time for the feature (if not the newsreel and/or other short if there was one), but it would certainly have been normal for people to walk in late.

I think it’s also though because I don’t really understand it. I understand the nickelodeon thing which is why I wrote so much about that. I understand skipping the newsreel or the short (though I wouldn’t myself). I don’t understand walking into a feature-length narrative film even just a few minutes after it starts. It’s rare that I’ve been late because I try to get to the theater way earlier than necessary to ensure I get the seat I want, but on the couple of occasions where something caused me to be so late I would miss the beginning, I just didn’t go.

I also always stay to the end of the credits because I like to read them, especially the parts at the end that usually reveal what the filming locations were when it’s not obvious, because IMDB makes it hard to find the information I want on their mobile site (everything I look for there, like technical specs, filming locations, etc., is not even linked to on the mobile site - you have to switch to the desktop site with a tiny link on the bottom to find that stuff). Not sure if the elderly couples you mention were there for the credits or just hanging out but that sounds like a lovely interaction, especially for a film like that.

Actually, your descriptions of that theater (which sounds like a great place to see things) reminds me of something quite relevant. When I was regularly going to the Eastman House theater, I would always sit in the same seat, second row right in the middle (the front row was, somehow, too close). Almost every time I went, there was this woman who also always sat in the same seat, which was front row center. She had big-ish curly hair (which I knew quite well since she always sat in front of me) but I don’t know if I ever saw her face, because she rushed in at the last second literally every time and left once the credits started rolling. Rarely more than 30 seconds or a minute after the film started, but literally always late!

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Funny you should mention it, because I saw a depiction of these theaters last night when I watched Chaplin. Charlie landed in the US and immediately went to Butte, Montana of all places (the film did a horrible job of explaining that, and the overall continuity of events in general.) It was 1913 I believe, and Mr. Chaplin was watching short films in just such a theater. The projectionist was standing next to his machine a few yards up the aisle from where Chaplin was sitting. Chaplin’s friend drifts in with news for him, and Chaplin calls out to the projectionist to play a certain reel, with the answer “you’ve already watched everything twice.”
I had always heard the term “nickelodeon” to mean a machine you stood at like an arcade game, dropped a nickel into and watched a film on a little viewfinder, but this is not historically correct. Those machines did exist then, but a nickelodeon was a whole, crude theater as you describe. The terms got confused later by people who had experienced neither, I guess because the machines were coin-operated. Of course, now “nickelodeon” means a children’s television network, you even have to click through to the disambiguation page on wiki to even see the original meaning.

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That’s one I’ve been meaning to watch for years - I’ll have to move it up my mental queue. I hear RDJ is excellent in it.

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He is. His performance is the reason to watch the film, and the period-correct details are also pretty great. It suffers from cramming a complicated life’s story into a feature-length film, but still quite worthwhile, IMO.

ETA:
Speaking of Chaplin, Kevin Kline played Chaplin’s great friend and United Artist’s co-founder Douglas Fairbanks, Sr. Getting back to the topic of silent films, his Thief of Baghdad was an excellent silent film that I think suffers much less of the alien quality many have identified. I kinda like silent films anyway, but TToB is not like most of them. It has giant, lavish sets more like what you would see in the 50’s technicolor biblical epics than your ordinary silent set. Also, all the scenes were tinted a color to suit the mood or setting (orange/pink in sunlight, green or blue for interiors, etc.) But chiefly, the shots are all incredibly dynamic, the action flows across the screen. The Adonis-like Fairbanks is rightly described as nearly dancing through the scenes, quite adeptly expressing himself physically rather than vocally.

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His movie sets were very precisely designed to accommodate his stunts. The designers knew exactly how far he could leap and bound with ease, and arranged the sets accordingly, so that everything seemed effortless.

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A little late to this but yes you should find it. It is a feast of glorious art deco sets, camp, killing by contraption, and just a whole lot of fun.
There are uploads to youtube so enjoy.

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You are missing out. You will realize how much Chaplin was an influence on all cinema to this day. Directors still copy his scenes. Also I dare any one here who is a parent to not cry your eyes out at the end of The Kid.

Also if you can, go see it on the big screen and if possible with live music. Seriously. Maybe I am lucky to be in Seattle where we get regular showings with a restored Wurlitzer. And it doesn’t even have to be an organ, I went to a showing of L’Inferno that had an experimental electronic group making trippy music and sounds for the film and it was great stuff.

Late night when you are tired is probably not the best but you are missing out on some great stuff. I will happily watch Doug Fairbanks or Buster Keaton repeatedly.

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