I’ll just put this here for reference. Lots of inconclusive evidence that might merit more study.
It is free-- you don’t need to spend 90 bucks on the ebook.
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A basic vape pen will run somewhere between 30 and 40 watts. Once you start to get into “enthusiast” territory, that goes as high as three or four hundred watts. I got too much dust (redecorating with my sister) into my last vape and it gave up the ghost, so I bought a shock/dust/water proof mod that has enough replaceable parts that it should technically last forever. It kicks out 200w maximum, which is just silly, but the idea is that you might need that much power to plug in whatever extension you might feel necessary.
I like to vape “direct to lung” (think hitting a hookah or a bong rather than a cigarette), which means that I can only use coils that are less than one ohm, otherwise the draw is too restrictive. If you vape “mouth to lung” (think drawing on a cigarette and then sucking the vape into your lungs), then the initial drag needs to generate a lot of steam at a high resistance, which means you need to use a high wattage to get the desired results.
I’m not entirely sure what the point of having 200w of available power is though, apart from potentially using the mod to power a “dry herb” atomiser that actually needs to cook things through to get the full extent of the hit. Three or four hundred watt mods are just peen-flexing.
Yes, this. Water in a vape would probably kill you, or at least do a lot of damage. My (probably incorrect) understanding is that glycerine has a higher evaporation point than water, so the steam that you get when you vape by heating the coil to 200°c is closer to 40 or 50°c when it actually comes out. Water steam seems like it would be a lot hotter.
In other news, I’ve spent the day fiddling with my vape settings and somewhere around 37w seems like the sweet spot. Over that wattage, there seems to be a “plasticky” taste that (now I’ve read the above articles) I assume is formaldehyde.
What confuses me is how temperature control factors into the whole thing; how does keeping the wattage/voltage at the same level but increasing the temperature affect the output of formaldehyde? Is formaldehyde the result of cooking the vape liquid too quickly, or is it the result of getting it too hot?
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Chemical reaction rates generally increase with temperature, in a complex way. So it makes sense you’d get more formaldehyde as you up the T.
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Hmm. So both “rapid application of heat” and “heating to a higher temperature than is strictly necessary” would have the same result?
I kind of pictured it like cracking hydrocarbons but I guess that makes sense too.
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“Rapid application of heat” is a little vague to me, though I guess the result is the same. I mean rapid application over the short term is sort of the same as slow application over the long term.
One thing that’s not in the equation (or might be hidden as part of one of the constants) is the time needed for the reaction to happen. That’s chemical kinetics, which I’m not at all familiar with. As is I’m reaching back quite a few years to remember all this stuff (with the help of Wikipedia of course).
I imagine these same thing happens when you cook food. Look at all the fuss about grilling meat and carcinogens in the char that forms.
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My (embarrassingly vague) understanding of such things is that the speed with which you apply heat changes the reaction that you get: if you heat cooking oil by 1°c for a thousand seconds, the result is very different to applying 1000°c for a second, even though the power output is the same. Is that a flawed analogy?
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I think that’s a good analogy. There are some complicating factors (how fast heat can actually flow). Over a thousand seconds, the oil will probably go up by 1 degree, because the heat has time to flow. In one second, not much heat will have a chance to flow, so the temperature of the oil won’t go up nearly as high (overall). Right near the interface between the oil and source of heat, it will get really hot, but far away it won’t. So you’ll get different things happening in different regions of the oil.
These things get complex really fast, despite the “simplicity” (ha) of the equations. That’s why they use computers to solve problems like designing a computer case so the heat from the processors and whatnot are taken away properly.
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This abstract seems to suggest that formaldehyde only appears in significant quantities at over 215°c:
Combined with the first study, that should mean that there’s negligible risk at low wattage and temperatures. I’m sticking to a comfortable 37w and 200°c for now, at least until I see further evidence of risk or the lack thereof.
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That’s the kind of experiment that need to be done!
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This is why we need regulation. Sigh.
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I’ve got to say that I think that is what the data always suggested.
That said, I am starting to feel like there is some benefit to vaping at lower temperatures and voltages. I’ve had some acne on my cheeks since I started vaping but I also moved continents at the time and have been under a fair amount of stress since then, so I have been reluctant to equate the acne with vaping.
My newest atomiser (an Innokin i-sub S, which I highly recommend) can take coils that are stainless steel, pure nickel, pure titanium or nichrome, which each affect flavour and temperature in a different way. I noticed that the stainless steel and titanium coils seemed to reduce the acne, which I put down to a nickel/chrome allergy, which wouldn’t be uncommon.
Since dropping the temperature and wattage, I’ve noticed a huge improvement in my skin. It’s early days and this is entirely anecdata, but I feel like there’s a connection there. The ni200 and nichrome coils need more power to fire, and I’m fairly convinced that the benefits of switching to stainless steel (which I did a few months ago) have been compounded by further reducing the temperature and wattage to decrease the amount of formaldehyde that I am inhaling.
Thanks, @gadgetgirl for pointing me in the right direction on this.
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Vitamin E acetate.
Vitamin E is found naturally in certain foods, such as canola oil, olive oil and almonds. The oil derived from the vitamin, known as vitamin E acetate, is commonly available as a nutritional supplement and is used in topical skin treatments. It is not known to cause harm when ingested as a vitamin supplement or applied to the skin. Its name sounds harmless, experts said, but its molecular structure could make it hazardous when inhaled. Its oil-like properties could be associated with the kinds of respiratory symptoms that many patients have reported: cough, shortness of breath and chest pain, officials said.
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A letter from the marketer for Clear Cut, essentially admitting that his product is Vitamin E (Tocophoryl Acetate)
May we released a video which featured our new product called Clear Cut, and yes, it does contain Tocopheryl Acetate. The videos you are referring to are copies, put up by bad actors with misinformation to induce fear and hatred in the industry at a time when level headed research is necessary. It is widely known that Vitamin E/ Tocopheral Acetate is listed as non toxic and G.R.A.S. by the FDA and that a review of the MSDS of Tocopheryl Acetate shows minimal if any side effects.
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The FDA is analyzing samples submitted by the states for the presence of a broad range of chemicals, including nicotine, THC and other cannabinoids along with cutting agents/diluents and other additives, pesticides, opioids, poisons and toxins. No one substance, including Vitamin E acetate, has been identified in all of the samples."
And the mystery continues…
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Modal warning if you try to read too much.
While health investigators are clearing the air around the clinical aspect of the cases, the cause is still foggy. Though all the cases are associated with vaping, investigators have struggled to identify specific vape products or ingredients that tie all the cases and symptoms together.
So far, investigations have narrowed to focusing on contaminants in counterfeit, black-market, and home-mixed vape liquids, particularly ones containing THC. Many people sickened reported using vape liquids containing THC (tetrahydrocannabinol, the primary psychoactive ingredient in cannabis) prior to falling ill. But the culprit or culprits are still under investigation.
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