Wanderthread

Which is why I was making a point of saying “in the US”. Most of what I’m arguing in this thread is directly in response to the US situation, which is an extreme case.

The UK situation is different (although not entirely, as Akala points out), and I don’t follow it nearly as closely as I do US politics. So I don’t talk about it much, although I do generally think well of Jezza and co.

BTW, for a UK-centric thing coming from an upper/middle-class establishment source, check this out:

For more recent examples of the middle class siding with the authoritarian right against the workers, see the 20th century history of pretty much every country in Latin America. Or current-day Hungary, Poland, Greece.

Or current day USA: more than half of the US middle class are Trumpists. Or, to keep the focus on the liberal middle class, see the Dems recent votes on military funding, police powers, foreign affairs, etc.

No, it doesn’t. I wouldn’t be here talking to folks if it did.

Half of the US middle class aren’t fascists, and a substantial minority are lefties. And liberals don’t always side with the fascists over the socialists. Just regrettably often.

And it’s a high-intensity epithet amongst the left, too. Putting that label on someone is a sure-fire way to start a fight.

Tankies are despised; see the post about the RevLeft Radio Marxist/Leninist episode for a demonstration. Just talking to ML’s draws fire from across the left; the anarchists tend to see MLs as the enemy, while much of the rest of the left thinks of MLs as catastrophically destructive fools.

Socialism is not Stalinism, just as Capitalism is not Nazism. The fact that socialism is so easily painted as such is a sign of the dominance of the capitalist side in the propaganda wars of the 20th century.

Actual Stalinists in the 21st century left are about as rare as NAMBLA advocates at a gay pride march, for similar reasons.

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The permanent advantage of the GOP is more money, deeper tribalism, a narrower tent, and the backing of religious organization. There’s a reason the 30% opinion has made up over 50% of government positions for decades.

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All of that is a factor, but I’d argue that it’s deeper seated and more structural.

The original intent of the electoral college was to protect wealth from democracy and maintain slavery. Ditto for felon disenfranchisement etc.

It still serves that purpose. It isn’t an advantage to the GOP, it’s an advantage to white supremacy and wealth.

I know I recommend this one often, but have you ever had a poke at McPherson’s Battle Cry of Freedom? The stuff in that about antebellum political machinations is very reminiscent of recent political history.

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It’s worth noting that John Locke actively supported slavery.

One group of tyrants can use liberalism to condemn another group of tyrants. But socialists can use it to recognize emerging tyrants, and use it to structure institutions so they’re less vulnerable to tyrants. If Russia in 1917 had a genuine liberal tradition-- not the Kadets-- then the other socialist parties might have stopped Bolshevik power-grabs in early/mid 1918. Instead they had an assassination politics tradition.

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US millenial economics:

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Sixth century Iranian proto-communists…

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https://mobile.twitter.com/calebjhull/status/939593720164487169

https://twitter.com/inthesedeserts/status/939612769325903872?s=17

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I see the DNC unity council actually approved reforms, we will have to see if he 100% establishment rules committee accepts them. The basics: cutting superdelegates by 60%, requiring published budgets and committee approvals for expenditures over $100K, and establishing written guidelines for primaries to attempt to make them common across state lines.

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BTW, that communist army officer is apparently now commanding a company of armoured infantry in Afghanistan.

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E16EB2F5-011C-4EAD-AE50-1BDF558F5691025AF987-1EB9-42C2-BD5B-A259D80259A1112F019A-8ECB-4526-9329-B739146C9C86

For a (very) rough analogy to understand Gough, think of him as Oz’s Bernie. We actually got ours elected…briefly.

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i haven’t been ignoring this question, I’ve been thinking about it. This isn’t the kind of question that deserves a quick, knee-jerk response.

I do not support the death penalty. Period. So when you speak of slavers being at the end of a rope after the revolution is over, no, I cannot get behind that. Go ahead and strip them of their wealth, their influence, any of that. Leave them to be exiled.

The problem is how easily this thinking leads to genocide. Did the Haitians deserve to be able to defend their lives? Absolutely. But once you get into punitive murder, it’s not that hard for the oppressed to become the very thing they were fighting against.

Also, violence =/= murder. Pre-emptive defense does not have to involve mass murder / summary executions.

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https://twitter.com/speediest_sloth/status/939910855075991553

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(and, once again: Stalin was a mass murdering bastard. Nevertheless, the use of Stalinism to slander socialism and whitewash fascism is utter bullshit)

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The beginning of the Cold War wasn’t cold, and it predated Stalinism:

Screencaps from Cypher:

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For me your attitude of economic “responsibility” is more socially respectable than it is strictly responsible in economic terms. I’m pretty irritated at the left too, for the same reason I roll my eyes at your liberalism, neo- or otherwise, which is that no one seems willing to learn the dynamics necessary to understand what’s going on. Why the rich were able to rebuild the aristocracy in the last forty years. Why they are unassailable, whether through democratic action, disobedience, or revolt.

Unassailable, that is, given the hundred-year-old ideas of the typical left and the hundred-fifty-ish year old murmurations of respectability you hold to.

I have nothing left but to poke at you all. My writing life is on hold right now because idiot greedy bastards are making my work life hell. I wish they were making less money so they’d fucking let up.

This sort of ad is not going to work:

It makes the Dems look weak and desperate. It would also be quite reasonably seen as patronising and offensive by every person in Alabama who isn’t an idiot.