Wanderthread

I think that’s over-egging it a bit. Both sides have moved to more extreme positions, hurling insults at anyone who might not be a fellow traveller. Remainer/Blairite seems to be the insult du jour and the idea that there might be some sort of middle ground seems to be anathema to them.

Part of the problem is that the Tories have been hollowed out by the Brexit brigade to such an extent that if Thatcher were active in politics now she’s be branded a traitor. The idea that Rees-Mogg or Johnson could be even considered for PM would be laughable if it wasn’t so appalling.

As for Corbyn, I wish he was better. I was suspicious of the hype surrounding him when he became leader, because I remember the same hype around Blair, and we know how well that turned out. I don’t think he’s a bolshevik, more like a cut-price Tony Benn.

I don’t think he’s an anti-semite, but I do think that intellectually he’s swimming in the same pool as people who are, especially given his support for Palestine, and I think this colours how much weight he gives it. He’s had the luxury so far of a parliamentary career with very little scrutiny and I don’t think he’s adjusted to the fact that that’s no longer the case.

Do I believe he’s an IRA supporter? Yes, but I don’t see this as a problem. We dealt with the IRA by bringing them to the table and talking and finding a political solution however poor, that everyone could live with, despite a fundamental disagreement with their aims and methods.

And this is the real problem as I see it. The current partisan climate doesn’t encourage talking. Anyone who dares to question Brexit is talking the country down. Anyone who dares to question Corbyn is part of a Blairite plot to smear him. If we can’t talk how are we supposed to find a solution that everyone can (more or less) live with?

But then, this is just my (distinctly ideological) political perspective…:roll_eyes:

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Not really, but I’ve had a lot of conversations recently where any call for moderation is treated as supporting Nazis, so I think I might be a little gun shy.

I also don’t think Corbyn is particularly left wing but you’re right that everyone is treating him as the next coming of Lenin. But the Left has become more radical, it’s just that the Tories are just the opposition, the real enemy are the blairites.

Interesting local data…

https://twitter.com/christianmccrea/status/981306145632501760

That’s a remarkably consistent trend.

.

(tweet in response to the local media clutching their pearls over this: https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/the-fundamental-operating-model-of-australian-politics-is-breaking-down-20180322-p4z5o9.html)

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Obligatory note: no, Nina is not saying that the parties are the same. She is saying that merely pointing to the badness of the opposition is not a convincing political argument.

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But it is legitimate to ask why these are the only two options on offer…

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You stepped into a conversation you admitted you knew very little about callling for moderation and then promptly entrenched yourself into a position that was based on your original (self-admitted) ignorance on the American far-right. You were not called a Nazi, you were called or for being the type that continues to enable an increasingly powerful (especially at the time) Nazi lobby in the United States because they are being nice white Christian boys on camera.

Not that the conversation needs to spin up again here, it wouldn’t go anywhere.

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A fairly big misunderstanding of what I was doing but we couldn’t settle it there and I doubt we’ll do any better here. Best let it die.

Edit - also, not the only conversation I’m talking about.

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Interesting name:

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Liz Warren doing standard US politician imperialist propaganda:

Some vigorous critique in the comments…

(small sample, much more on Twitter)

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https://twitter.com/inshallahvolcel/status/981453738224136192

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https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2018/04/04/1968-enoch-bageye-and-me/

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https://twitter.com/idealsituation/status/981893040951394304

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