If I choose “part of the United States” does that mean I get the ability to vote on whichever shithead y’all decide should be the next Leader of the Free World?
If so, sign me up 
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That’s the thing that’s scary. If it was just one country (even my own), falling into a bad regime, well I could go elsewhere and historically the regime changes usually work themselves out in a couple generations (not always, but usually). But as a global trend, it’s concerning. Nowhere to run to, baby, nowhere to hide.
I agree with that and I’m also trying to mentally process it. Because it’s in me too, but I don’t understand it enough, couldn’t answer the question to actually explain it. That sense is just there. I guess I’ve never really examined it before.
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A good critique of stereotypical 1950’s WASPy culture is MAD magazine from the 1960s. IMHO. That’s where I first got a glimpse of the man behind the curtain as a kid.
ETA: pretty darned funny too.
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When asked like that, nothing really.
But I frankly see no advantage in The Independent American Republic of Missouri. That seems like a step backwards – Missouri state government is pretty damned shameful for the most part. And a whole bunch of little Brexits? No thanks.
I am opposed to schemes to break up the US on the basis of letting blue states be blue and red states be red, mostly because those “colors” are illusory. A red state is typically populated by about 40% progressive voters, and will have pockets – probably the major cities – where it’s more like 60%.
Annexed by Canada? I don’t have a problem with that, but it seems even less likely.
So if we’re indulging in fantasies, I’d rather have the fantasy of a just, compassionate society and I don’t care what the name of it is or what its flag looks like.
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Some of the things that I think Make America (truly) Great:
- Constant immigration;
- The diversity in every respect that comes from that constant influx;
- Significant investment in education and research, both governmental and private;
- The ability to have local laws for local conditions, while retaining crucial human and civil rights at the federal level;
- Having the ability to start over in a very different place if where you grew up or lived for a while isn’t right for you anymore, without having to actually change citizenship;
- A strong sense of civil commitment, allowing for individuals to have personal differences as long as everyone comes together when necessary for the greater good.
Yeah, I’d like to MAGA. That would be wonderful. When can we start?
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Reminds me of the quip attributed to Gandhi, which he probably never said:
“What do you think of Western civilization?”
“I think it would be a good idea.”
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Let America be America again.
Let it be the dream it used to be.
Let it be the pioneer on the plain
Seeking a home where he himself is free.
(America never was America to me.)
Let America be the dream the dreamers dreamed–
Let it be that great strong land of love
Where never kings connive nor tyrants scheme
That any man be crushed by one above.
(It never was America to me.)
O, let my land be a land where Liberty
Is crowned with no false patriotic wreath,
But opportunity is real, and life is free,
Equality is in the air we breathe.
(There’s never been equality for me,
Nor freedom in this “homeland of the free.”)
Say, who are you that mumbles in the dark?
And who are you that draws your veil across the stars?
I am the poor white, fooled and pushed apart,
I am the Negro bearing slavery’s scars.
I am the red man driven from the land,
I am the immigrant clutching the hope I seek–
And finding only the same old stupid plan
Of dog eat dog, of mighty crush the weak.
I am the young man, full of strength and hope,
Tangled in that ancient endless chain
Of profit, power, gain, of grab the land!
Of grab the gold! Of grab the ways of satisfying need!
Of work the men! Of take the pay!
Of owning everything for one’s own greed!
I am the farmer, bondsman to the soil.
I am the worker sold to the machine.
I am the Negro, servant to you all.
I am the people, humble, hungry, mean–
Hungry yet today despite the dream.
Beaten yet today–O, Pioneers!
I am the man who never got ahead,
The poorest worker bartered through the years.
Yet I’m the one who dreamt our basic dream
In the Old World while still a serf of kings,
Who dreamt a dream so strong, so brave, so true,
That even yet its mighty daring sings
In every brick and stone, in every furrow turned
That’s made America the land it has become.
O, I’m the man who sailed those early seas
In search of what I meant to be my home–
For I’m the one who left dark Ireland’s shore,
And Poland’s plain, and England’s grassy lea,
And torn from Black Africa’s strand I came
To build a “homeland of the free.”
The free?
Who said the free? Not me?
Surely not me? The millions on relief today?
The millions shot down when we strike?
The millions who have nothing for our pay?
For all the dreams we’ve dreamed
And all the songs we’ve sung
And all the hopes we’ve held
And all the flags we’ve hung,
The millions who have nothing for our pay–
Except the dream that’s almost dead today.
O, let America be America again–
The land that never has been yet–
And yet must be–the land where every man is free.
The land that’s mine–the poor man’s, Indian’s, Negro’s, ME–
Who made America,
Whose sweat and blood, whose faith and pain,
Whose hand at the foundry, whose plow in the rain,
Must bring back our mighty dream again.
Sure, call me any ugly name you choose–
The steel of freedom does not stain.
From those who live like leeches on the people’s lives,
We must take back our land again,
America!
O, yes,
I say it plain,
America never was America to me,
And yet I swear this oath–
America will be!
Out of the rack and ruin of our gangster death,
The rape and rot of graft, and stealth, and lies,
We, the people, must redeem
The land, the mines, the plants, the rivers.
The mountains and the endless plain–
All, all the stretch of these great green states–
And make America again!
–Langston Hughes
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There is never a wrong time to post Langston Hughes, but this is probably one of the most appropriate times in history.
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Thread:
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A great reminder that a descent from normal to an incredibly bloody civil war led by authoritarian shit heads stirring up ethnic tensions happened within very recent memory.
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Not that this is a completely new perspective that isn’t already well-understood here, but, here’s my view. America is mythology - an idealistic enlightenment fantasy set forth by the founding fathers.
I think it’s hard to list specific reasons why America is great because upon a minimum of reflection it becomes immediately apparent that the reality is not and, importantly, has never been, truly great. The myth has never been even close to being reality on the ground.
(Plus you realize that Canada seems to actually embody that American myth, with few downsides - the major downside seems to be the weather, but then again summers in Canada are very pleasant.)
But the myth is powerful. Great things do happen in the US, in no small part because of the myth. But it’s become unsustainable - all manner of things are so bad, even in the wealthiest and most progressive parts of the country, that the myth doesn’t act as red white and blue blinders anymore.
You can, of course, still ignore the problems, which seems to be the current political solution.
On one cold metal hand, it’s kind of exciting to consider American collapse. We’d have the opportunity to learn from all the mistakes of the past 250 years, plus the mistakes of everyone else around the world. Our new constitution would last at least another 250 years (at which point the world will be at war anyway because of the climate crisis and subsequently the survivors will form the United Earth government.)
To reach that point of rebuilding America after total collapse, of course, a lot of suffering will happen first, which is unfortunate. It should all be torn down now instead of waiting for that. With the fall of the Supreme Court, all of our revered political institutions are fundamentally broken already. There’s nothing left worth saving at the top levels of the three branches.
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I think the myth of “America = Great” came from the fact that Europeans found an unspoiled land absolutely crammed with valuable resources, that they then set about exploiting (along with people, of course) with wild abandon. The industrial revolution came along at just the right time to help. Of course we got rich and powerful.
People regularly overlook this, and still think we’re “great” because of their little individual bloated-ego-saturated selves, when the land gave it to them on a platter. A lot of work went into it too, but the payoff was absolutely tremendous, far beyond what we deserved. Now that things are falling apart, they can’t understand why the myth is no longer working for them.
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Don’t forget the third factor: guns. Twentieth century American dominance was built on the profits of arming Europe for both world wars.
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And then not getting bombed to shit the way Europe was.
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