Are Mass Shooters Sane?

Is there any value in generally calling them insane, or mentally ill? Certainly we know that the vast majority of mentally ill people are utterly harmless, and do not deserve our fear and suspicion.

I think the problem stems from most people’s need to “make sense” of horrific tragedies like this. They can’t imagine a circumstance under which they themselves would do such a thing, and thus find it incomprehensible that someone else would have anything like a coherent reason to do it, and so they conclude “he must be insane.”

But I think we too often suffer from a poverty of imagination. A fella named Tom Ferebee pulled a small switch that dropped a revolutionary piece of ordnance that directly murdered around 66,000 people (over two-thirds of them civilians) and injured 69,000 more. A Major in the Army Air Forces at the time, he rose to the rank of Colonel, retired, became a real estate agent, and died at home at the age of 81. He was awarded the Silver Star.

He may not have been fully aware of the actual potential magnitude of that switch-flip, but he surely knew that a whole lot of unsuspecting people were about to die as a result. What the hell, we were at war, it was a job that needed to be done, and he was convinced that he was the man to do it. Who knows what nightmares (if any) the next 55 years held for him? It’s certain that if he refused to do the job, there would have been a long line of patriotic young men ready and eager to perform this duty for flag and nation and apple pie and mom. In the end, many believe that ending WWII with the atomic bomb saved more lives than it cost. We’ll never know for sure.

But war is, apparently, a Special Circumstance. Hell as it is, it’s made up of state-sponsored murder, with kids in their teens trained and equipped and paid to take lives, and awarded medals if they do it well and efficiently. We’re used to the idea that our boys (and girls these days) are trained to place a specific value on an enemy life, and when that value is in doubt, to end it before that enemy ends them. A mass murderer makes this same calculus more or less alone, without the dubious benefit of the President and the Departments of State and Defense telling them which way to point the weapon.

When someone signs up for military service, one kind of cedes decision-making control to the brass. One does what one is told, or faces stiff consequences. If one has no desire to ever be compelled to kill, one avoids military service at all costs… 'cause one never knows when Uncle Sam is gonna need one, and in what capacity.

And yet, even in civilian life, sometimes the feeling that one is surrounded by enemies, that one needs to do something about them… I strongly believe that it could happen to just about anyone. Some of us are strong enough to resist the call of violence. Some of us are comfortable enough to never feel it. Some of us are unfortunate enough to feel it… and unable to resist it. Sometimes that’s a result of mental illness.

But more often it’s a result of unfortunate circumstances, a perfect storm of motive and opportunity and irresistible pressures unknown to bystanders… People can and do make what appear to be perfectly evil decisions that are based upon unassailable logic and widely understandable motives. Is that illness? Is that insanity?

No. Life has no measurable value except that which we ourselves place upon it. When the Cypress Street Viaduct collapsed onto the Nimitz Freeway during the 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake, killing 42 people, did Nature shed a bitter tear? Did the concrete pause in regret? Did the sun slow in its arc to note the occasion? Did the swallows in San Juan Capistrano stop singing? Probably not. We people noticed, and mourned, because we did not want to be the victims of such a tragedy, nor do we like to see others suffering when their loved ones perish in such an event.

But we are not outside observers who have no effect on the experiment. We’re in the petri dish. We’re part of the system. A falling tree is a force of nature, as is an offended bear, a hurricane, or a “madman” with a gun. We can try to avoid these things, or minimize their effects. We can build stronger structures outside of floodplains, we can try to avoid getting between a bear and her cubs… but you can’t prevent the wind and rain, nor should you exterminate all bears. You can make every effort to make it as difficult as possible for anyone to get their hands on a gun, particularly guns which make it ludicrously easy to kill a whole lotta people in very little time. And while that’s working its way through the political system (or not), you can try to avoid treating the people who feel the need to use those weapons like incomprehensible “raving lunatics.” You usually won’t identify them in time to prevent all attacks. You’d have a much better chance of saving lives and helping the aggrieved if society’s path of least resistance was something other than cheap weaponry at Wal*mart.

Because yeah, we’ve gotten to the point where it’s easier to get a big gun and buckets of ammo and a high-up corner suite with a view than it is to find any other, more constructive solution to one’s problems.

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So maybe we make it harder to get that? I dunno, maybe thats a start?

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That would be ideal, yes.

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My aunt had this really interesting book about the insanity defense. It varies wildly from state to state how easy it is to get it and what the criteria are.

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In Indiana, we had a category called Guilty But Mentally Ill. Basically it acknowledged that the perpetrator had a mental illness but was fully aware they were committing a crime. Legal insanity means that the person is not aware that they are committing a crime, regardless of whether or not they have a documented mental illness.

IANAL so I may be a bit fuzzy on the details.

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Issues like this are also, however, why as an atheist, I still believe in evil, it’s just that evil to me is an utterly human thing. Many of these people are perfectly capable of not doing the thing they did, but they choose to do it anyway.

I know what it’s like to get compulsive thoughts and have feelings you wish you could but can’t control. But look at the interviews with mass shooters. It’s not the feeling that they are not in control, but rather the opposite. They don’t describe thoughts or feelings being intrusive. In most cases, even if the perpetrator does have a mental health issue, it’s incidental to what they do, not the cause.

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In Canada its called NCR - not criminally responsible.
Which is interesting because you can be schizophrenic and commit a crime and be found responsible, and often many people want to be held responsible, because you get out of jail eventually, but you might never get out of the hospital.

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I can imagine it. It happens nearly everyday (on average) in 'Merica! People should damn well be able to not only imagine it, but not feign surprise when it happens again.

But a recent tweet I remember seeing was that “most of those mass shooting don’t count because it was gang on gang”

As if that really makes a difference.

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People are people. Some become evil and/or violent, some have mental problems up to insanity. Those are orthogonal though.

Violent != insane. Evil != mental problems. May as well say they’re witches or possessed by demons. Or perhaps their humours have been corrupted by the vapors.

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that does seem to be going around lately. :wink:

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Maybe it’s time?

A routine traffic stop in Baltimore resulted in a woman being strip searched on the sidewalk and her anal cavity checked. After she was let go with a broken taillight citation,

I mean hey, who wouldn’t consider a violent response to a violent assault? I think the desire to inflict that kind of humiliation is a clear sign of mental imbalance. Sane people don’t go around violating peoples sex organs in the name of anything but primate on primate violence, and that’s insanity.

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I agree.

how lucky they are

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So how do you explain anti-immigrant politics?

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In general. Immigration restrictions hurt and often endanger people, and immigration restrictionists often appeal to doublespeak like “sovereign rights,” which still wouldn’t justify hurting or endangering people, or to false analogies like saying crossing the government’s borders is “breaking into your home.”

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I agree. The statistics show that mentally ill people tend to be the ones who are victims of violence, as opposed to the primary perpetrators of it. And “mental illness” is never trotted out as an explanation when the perps are people of color or Muslims. Only white men. People like Jared Laughner are an aberration form the vast majority of mass shooters.

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Late to the party here, but wow, that was one beautiful essay, @Donald_Petersen.

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I found the following in @socialistdogmom’s recap of the Trial of James Fields, and I thought it appropriate.

I’ve really struggled with how to handle this portion of monday’s proceedings. I have a lot of personal and contradictory feelings about it. To slightly spoil the discussion that follows, it is very clear that Fields suffers from significant mental illness. I won’t dispute that in any way. And I want to be clear that mental illness is no one’s fault. That it isn’t something you can will away or pull yourself up by your bootstraps to overcome. I have been thinking about how to have this conversation for months. During his federal arraignment in July, Fields told the judge he is being treated for anxiety, ADHD, and bipolar disorder. My first thought was, well so am I and I’ve never killed anyone. I recognize this knee jerk reaction is unfair and unreasonable – people experience the same illnesses very differently. I do not mean to imply that because I, or other people with these illnesses, have been able to navigate them with varying degrees of success that those whose struggle is different are in some way deficient or choosing to be sick.

For some people, no amount of intervention or personal effort will ever mitigate symptoms to the point that you can live what other people would call a normal, symptom-free life. And there are conditions that can be so severe that you may take actions that are out of character for you, that you may be to some degree not responsible for. I don’t dispute that. But ideology is not an illness.

Mr Fields was and is quite ill, but a person suffering from identical symptoms who was NOT a white supremacist would not have taken the same actions. Insofar as it is their legal obligation to represent their client to the best of their ability, I believe it was fair and ethical for his defense team to present this evidence as mitigation at sentencing rather than as a defense during the guilt phase of the trial. But I do not agree with the philosophical thrust of the argument generally. I do not think his mental illness excuses or even truly makes any progress toward explaining his actions. That he is sick is a fact, but I don’t find it to be a relevant one. I would argue that the witness they presented would mostly agree with that statement.

I do not want it to be lost in this story that white supremacy is not a mental illness. Racism is not a mental illness. You can be a racist with a mental illness the same as you can be a racist who has diabetes or a racist who has carpal tunnel syndrome. No one would ever argue that it was your diabetes that made you racist or your wrist pain made you a murderer. The conflation of mental illness with acts of violence is dangerous. It not only allows those who commit violence to shed some of the culpability they should bear, but it demeans and endangers everyone who lives with mental illness. People with mental illness are far more likely to be the victims of violent crime than they are to commit them. We can condemn Fields for his actions without shaming people who live with mental illness. We can discuss hate without equating it with mental illness.

I agree wholeheartedly with the above.

There are probably terrible people who are mentally healthy who will not ever commit murder, and perhaps some of them would, if they were mentally ill. The blame, though, shouldn’t be given to the “mentally ill” part, but to the “terrible people” part.

Would James Fields have murdered Heather Hayes, and maimed all of those other people, had he been mentally healthy? Maybe not.

Regardless, he definitely wouldn’t have murdered them had he valued their lives. Had he thought of them as someone other than “the enemy.” Had he been, in any way, a decent person, with or without a mental illness.

Fields thought he was fighting a war, and that peaceful protestors were valid targets in that war. His mental illness didn’t cause him to think that: that’s a moral judgement, consistent with the ideology he participated with and espoused online. Did his mental illness made the difference of whether he performed the attack or not? I can’t say; probably no one can. However, I feel confident in saying that even if his illness pushed him over the edge, he willfully walked up to that edge entirely of his own volition. If he hadn’t allowed his moral fibre to decay to the point where fear of consequences was the only thing preventing him from committing murder, then, even if he did lose sight of those consequences momentarily, it wouldn’t have caused so much as a stubbed toe.

His family’s story is a tragic one. But nothing in it forced him to become a white supremacist, and without making that choice, without continually making that choice for years, James Fields would never have killed Heather Hayes, no matter how severe his bipolar disorder, anxiety, and ADHD were. That should be the take-away from this, and from nearly all of these mass killers: that these are not otherwise-good people whose illness causes them to do horrible things, but people who believe horrible things, and who may also have endured some pain due to their illness.

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It’s funny, there was a story going around years ago about how there was a guy who ended up making a sizable contribution to compiling the Oxford English Dictionary. He had time on his hands. He had time on his hands because he was in an asylum after having developed a paranoid fear of Irishmen culminating in his having knifed one to death. His pathology, interestingly, came about at a time of history when there was a centuries-old low-level civil war going on about the Irish Questions: religion. geography. class. business. families. He was a gentleman and the alternative was the noose.

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