A thread to discuss toxic masculinity and the various ways it impacts society
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That’s a very good example of how toxic masculinity is bad for men, too, and not just for women.
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But are the things in the survey actually toxic?
Seems to me most of them are fairly innocuous preferences related to how people grew up, especially in the mid to latish part of the 20th century, in WASP families in particular (both apply to me). But as far as I can tell the traits don’t necessarily hurt anyone, nor do they particularly affect people’s lives. I have read that men in other countries feel fine about holding hands while walking down the street. Perhaps that’s just how they grew up in their particular culture.
There are lots of examples of things men do that do hurt people. Isn’t toxic masculinity limited to those kinds of things? Or is is the article concluding that disliking pink clothes (for example) contributes to male toxicity?
I find the results of the survey interesting but not proof of anything except that people differ in their preferences.
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Hmm. I’m going to guess that it’s the more generalized observation that “Men are more uncomfortable showing emotion and making physical contact” that is the toxic part. That there’s a notable difference in human connection because of the norms of masculinity.
I might have more thoughts on that, but I’m not sure what they are yet.
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I would amend that to say that “Men who act like assholes because they are more uncomfortable showing emotion and making physical contact (or for any other reasons)" defines toxic masculinity.
I think that men being uncomfortable due to intimacy (or any other) problems or traits is neutral, and it’s what they do with it is what matters–i.e., how they treat other people.
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I think it matters for them too. Like I think it isolates them. Like if fear of intimacy being weak or homophobia keeps people from connecting with people in a way that they need actually it’s destructive even if they don’t overtly hurt anyone else. I dunno I’ve just seen some isolated sad lonely guys who are afraid to even get too close to their own friends before…
Im generally skeptical of studies that use surveys though.
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Time to revive this thread, me thinks… will cross-post to the media thread…
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Seems like a failure of parents, more than anything… I know some teens from this demographic, and the one with smart, engaged, empathic parents don’t seem to have turned into this toxic masculine mess. It’s kind of weird to think of kids being more influenced by media than by their parents… it can be true, but parents often play the role of putting the world that their kids encounter into a larger context…
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Lee Fang? Didn’t he work for The Intercept? Kinda surprised to see he’s turned into such an asshole. 
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This guy?
I don’t know anything about him… It just strikes me a bit that focusing on the media being able to solely shape someone who is a kid is missing a large part of the narrative about how kids actually learn how to human.
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Glad you posted it, but cannot like.
I mean, from the second sentence: “men like you were deemed oppressors.” What the actual? That’s the take-away? Not “don’t be an asshole”? Holy shitsnacks.
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Well, but see, men, especially white men, are the REAL victims here, I mean god forbid women want to be safe or anything!!! /s
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Not to mention framing of his point within the idea that librul elites have formed a woke culture that really does demonize and oppressive men.
Exactly.
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Likewise “liberal politicians closed schools and forced you to take classes online”. No, of course we don’t blame a deadly pandemic for that, just those damned liberals for taking a few tepid steps to keep you alive. Lee Fang is a jackass and I hate how many jackasses are using this disaster to promote their selfish counterfactual narrative that actually, the right were the good guys all along. No they fucking weren’t.
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In November of 2016 I had been largely unemployed for the past year, but the idea of voting for Trump never once crossed my mind. I don’t understand the appeal.
Edit - I should point out this is what I was thinking after reading the Lee Fang piece.
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