C'mon Guys (Toxic Masculinity)

Not being an asshole isn’t an “impossible standard”, dickhead.

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Dude is 60.

I’ve never heard anyone over the age of 25 say “the ick” before.

60yos trying to hook up with teens and early twenties and complaining it’s “too hard?” Lol

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No wonder he gives “the ick”

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If he’s 60, then that’s the photo he’s using to trick younger women into agreeing to a date with him.

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I dunno. I googled him and that is the age that comes up for a journalist by that name according to the search engine. Well, that hand this op ed he wrote which is currently all over social media I guess.

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I read that steaming pile of fecal matter, even though I knew I probably shouldn’t give it the time of day.

Relevant (to my ranting) quote:

Of course, it is clearly exag­ger­ated for comic effect. But humour reflects deeper truths about social expect­a­tions. Women have long had to endure the relent­less scru­tiny of being deemed attract­ive based on impossibly nar­row stand­ards.

Now men are find­ing them­selves judged not just on their looks, but on split-second actions. The idea that a minor faux pas can instantly wipe out attrac­tion breeds an already lat­ent anxi­ety.

Men get the ick too, but these rarely carry the same weight, nor seem to hold the same power to under­mine confidence.

This cas­ual cruelty can have real con­sequences. At its heart, the “ick” trend rein­forces an impossible stand­ard: that men should be attract­ive at all times; never look silly, fal­ter, or be human. It is yet another mixed mes­sage to nav­ig­ate.

So he somehow recognizes (barely) the difficulties women have had to deal with in surviving under double standards and mixed messages, yet he only finds it objectionable and worthy of critique when it’s suffered by MEN.

buffy willow red eyes video edit best

Yes, maybe it’s unfair to for one person to write another off for tiny things, though it must be acknowledged that attraction can be a fickle thing for folks of any gender. But to whine and cry than men should be exempt from a universal human experience because gee golly, it’s just too ouchy for their poor wittle fee-fees to handle… :face_with_symbols_over_mouth::face_with_symbols_over_mouth::face_with_symbols_over_mouth::face_with_symbols_over_mouth::face_with_symbols_over_mouth::face_with_symbols_over_mouth::face_with_symbols_over_mouth: Yet it’s folks like this who call women weak.

To be fair-- I don’t wanna say that men aren’t suffering, and no, it isn’t right that they’re hurting. Patriarchy damages ALL of us, men included. It heaps unrealistic expectations and demands on men just as it does on women, and the emphasis on being the stereotypical “strong stoic provider” impacts the ability for some men to have a full, healthy emotional range.

But the answer can’t be double standards, “good for thee but not for me” bullshit that only reinforces the patriarchal traps we’re all caught in, and yes, I can and will mock that kind of thinking… hopefully without losing empathy for the hurt behind it. I’m only human, but I’ll try.

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I had another thought about this. (Maybe I should wait for a response to reply to, but I’m impatient today.)

I think part of what’s enraging me about this essay is-- it was soooo close to actually making a breakthrough. It’s such a small step from realizing “is this what women go through? It sucks…” to “…then maybe we shouldn’t have unrealistic expectations for anybody.” I’d have accepted “hey, maybe ‘the ick’ isn’t the greatest term for it and we should try to be kinder and more empathetic to other people, even when we’re no longer interested in being their partner.” That would’ve been fair enough.

But instead they go straight to “oh no, teh p00r menz” (I’m sorry, but that is what I got from the article) without a hint of concern for women… and that’s just frustrating, disappointing garbage.

How do we break through this attitude when others are so unwilling to see, or learn from their experiences?

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I’m not sure we can. Not until more men stop seeing themselves as simultaneously victims and owed women’s attention.

Archive link if anyone else has the bandwidth to read such drivel. No need to feed this man baby’s need for attention

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Says a man who probably wouldn’t bother asking out women who are over 50 and have a pleasant personality.

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Yea, this line especially:

Of course, men get the ick too. But these rarely carry the same viral weight, nor do they seem to hold the same power to humiliate and undermine confidence.

Ummm, how would he know what our (us wimmins, I mean) internal reactions are?
He’s obviously never been a victim of the dismissive male gaze that Dustin Hoffman so famously wrote about experiencing when he was in costume for Tootsie. We get this shit from the time we’re old enough to remember. :roll_eyes:

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Also, there’s a whole social media platform that was originally developed to judge women’s appearances. But yeah, let’s focus on how toxic men are not attractive to women.

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Super Ick Cure

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hehe! that was the first thing i thought of!
fish ick.
eewww, don’t touch that guy! he’s got teh ick!

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He seems to think we don’t feel rejection. Of course we do. I can recall with crystal clarity one high school day when a guy I had a crush on delivered a playful comeback/insult that cut me right down to the bone. I don’t think he meant it that badly, but from him…it hurt. Rejection isn’t fun for anybody, but he’s downplaying how it feels for women, like we’re not feeling people too, and emphasizing it as a special threat for men?

stitch banging head against wall

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No, you see; women don’t feel things as strongly as men do, if at all. /s Wasn’t there at least one quote from Shakespeare about that?

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If I’m thinking of the right thing, it’s Duke Orsino in Twelfth Night:

There is no woman’s sides
Can bide the beating of so strong a passion
As love doth give my heart; no woman’s heart
So big, to hold so much; they lack retention
Alas, their love may be call’d appetite,
No motion of the liver, but the palate,
That suffer surfeit, cloyment and revolt;
But mine is all as hungry as the sea,
And can digest as much: make no compare
Between that love a woman can bear me
And that I owe Olivia.

To be fair, he’s a self-obsessed idiot, and Viola responds “I know…”

Too well what love women to men may owe:
In faith, they are as true of heart as we.
My father had a daughter loved a man,
As it might be, perhaps, were I a woman,
I should your lordship.

She sat like patience on a monument,
Smiling at grief. Was not this love indeed?
We men may say more, swear more: but indeed
Our shows are more than will; for still we prove
Much in our vows, but little in our love.

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That could be what I’m thinking of; thanks! There’s mystery series based on Shakespeare’s plays, called the “Fool’s Guild” series. The first in the series is “Thirteenth Night”, and Feste, the Fool in Twelfth Night is the main character, and sleuth, and is called back to Illyria to solve a murder. The Fools are actually a secret organisation of spies, etc. in the series.

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If dating is a numbers game, the numbers don’t appear to be on the men’s side. According to a 2022 Pew Research Center survey, 63 percent of men under 30 said they were single, compared to only 34 percent of women in the same age cohort.

If you made it men under 60 and women under 30, I’ll bet the numbers would be a lot more equal. Or at least compare only relationships/marriages where the men are not 15+ years older than the women. I mean, how do they think twice as many women as men are partnered can actually happen? There aren’t that many lesbians.

A recent YouGov poll found that 57 percent of women said they’ve been on a terrible date — only 44 percent of men can say the same. With many women no longer willing to accept ghosting, noncommitment, and harassment, men may be forced to change their ways or face being shut out of the dating pool.

OK, maybe we’re getting somewhere here.

“You can see a little bit of risk aversion among young men,” Reeves says. “Partly because they are largely, and I think incorrectly, worried about the risks that are going to come from putting yourself out there.”

You just said that the risk of having a bad date is much higher for women…so which is it?

A 2020 study found that 91 percent of men between the ages of 18 and 73 consumed porn within the last month, compared to 60 percent of women. When a sexual experience — mediated through a screen, no less — is a click away, why risk any potential discomfort?

Or maybe it’s the women who don’t like how they’re treated by men who watch so much porn that they have no idea what a real woman is?

Risking discomfort, oh noes, how scary. Worried a woman will laugh at them (y’all know the rest of that quote).

Ideological and political differences may also be driving singles apart: According to a recent American Perspectives Survey from the Survey Center on American Life, 52 percent of single women say they would be less likely to date a Trump supporter, compared to 36 percent of single men who say they wouldn’t date a Trump supporter. Sixty percent of single women feared that women would be worse off under another Trump administration whereas only 47 percent of single men felt the same. Given that young men appeared to favor Trump in the 2024 presidential election, this may impact their overall prospects.

Men don’t feel that they’d be worse off with Trump, or that the women in their lives would/wouldn’t be? Rather crucial distinction.

When politics looms too large in singles’ lives, and every choice, including who to date, carries significance, relationships can suffer, Reeves says.

Well, there you go. Women let politics (which affects ever aspect of their lives) loom too large, so some men are finding it harder to date.

“It’s really hard to have a good dating market if both the men and women are tending to think the worst of each other in advance. And I see a lot of that on both sides.”

Both sides, huh?

“This whole enterprise needs a lot of grace,” he says, “and a lot of forgiveness and a lot of accepting people in good faith.”

Accepting men who only want significantly younger women who act like porn stars and are gung-ho for Trump’s policies isn’t that big of an ask, gals! Geez, offer up some grace why don’tcha?

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There is entirely too much credence given to the idea of fixing your love life via politics or law these days.

You can’t make some one love you. You can’t even reasonably expect most people to like you.

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Especially when you’re a fucking dick!

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