Probably beside the point, but something I thought was interesting is that the original Pac-Man was actually one of the first arcade games designed with women in mind, with both pluses and minuses in the attempt:
[quote=“Toru Iwatani”]Around the time that we launched Pac-Man, video arcades were filled with games where you shoot aliens. It seemed very dark. It was for men, it wasn’t fashionable at all. When women would go out, they’d go out in a group of friends or with a boyfriend as a couple. And I realized that if women and couples were going to come to game centers, they had to be cheerful places.
When you think about things women like, you think about fashion, or fortune-telling, or food or dating boyfriends. So I decided to theme the game around “eating” — after eating dinner, women like to have dessert.
If you take a pizza and remove one piece, it looks like a mouth. That’s where my idea came from.[/quote]
Let’s not forget the ways that sometimes we’re our own worst enemies, too.
I have lost track of the number of times that one of the other clerks has left a box sitting on the floor or counter because “it’s too heavy, so I am going to have a man move it” (yes, that is a direct quote from one case) and then I pick it up to find it’s not that heavy, I ask where it needs to go and they scream “no! Put it down! It’s too heavy, I will get a man to do it.” Um… I am there, I picked it up, I am still holding it, just tell me where to goddamn put it and stop being so bloody helpless. It’s not the fact that they couldn’t do it (I don’t know everybody’s medical issues, there might be a legit reason) it’s the way they insist that the job can’t be done by a woman to the face of the woman doing it. Or how it’s amazing I can drive a standard shift, unstick the choke in a carburetor or fix a table when the wheel came off or that I read science and sci-fi but have no interest in romance or Hollywood gossip (if you do, go you, but don’t assume that because I am a woman that I must). But how many women and girls end up succumbing to that shame, just so they fit in and aren’t a weirdo.
Throw into that mix the fact that we’ve been conditioned not to go to movies alone*… well, if all your friends are going to the latest rom-com and your boyfriend won’t sit through a “girl movie”, then the prophesy that “female heroes don’t bring in the bank” becomes fulfilled.
*I have seen this play out in my own family with my sister horrified that we might go to the cineplex and then watch different movies. I think if more of us (not just women) were willing to go to movies alone, things would change. I’m sure there are some guys who only go to the “guy movies” because it’s what their buddies want to see.
That’s the issue with considering White, straight cis-gendered males as the “natural default,” in pretty much everything.
Like I said in the thread on BB that inspired this post, such obtuse self-absorption is the cause of so many of society’s problems - it basically boils down to White dudes in charge not seeing (let alone acknowledging) that other people matter just as much as they do.
And let’s not forget…there’s not a lot of mainstream female superheroes who’ve been around as long as WW, much less being as well-known as she. I’ve been wanting a Black Canary movie for years, but I ain’t gonna hold my breath.
I am, however, looking forward to the debut of the Wasp on film. “Ant-Man” did a great job of leading us into that, and I fervently hope that they don’t fuck it up.
And I’d say that that, in turn, boils down to what @MissyPants said:
They think of life as a zero-sum game. They’ve learned to push and shove to get ahead, and if women aren’t in front, it must be because they aren’t pushing and shoving hard enough. It’s ridiculous to them that they should be asked to not shove their competitors and willingly cede the high ground to those who haven’t “earned” it.
That’s why all our appeals to fairness and empathy fall on deaf ears. We’re essentially asking them change the rules of the game that they think we’re all supposed to be playing. Fair play, to them, is when everyone shoves and no one complains. And they’re blithely unaware that by persisting they’re only making things worse for themselves, in addition to everyone else.
Conservatism isn’t a philosophy—it’s a learned behavior.
I agree, but I think that is also why asking/expecting such people to play fair is often a waste of time. It sort of buys into the notion that we are all playing the same game. Instead of playing with them and hoping for them to not be weasely shits (again), it is up to us to play a different game entirely.
It’s like the difference between pleading to be allowed on the team of some known creeps, versus starting our own teams instead. It’s still worth encouraging them to be civilized, but I think I’d be crazy to wait for that to happen.
People acknowledge that “we are all the media” now, but many do in only abstract ways. We need to know it and live it in everyday life.
Nailed it.[quote=“Popo_Bawa, post:28, topic:598”]
I think that is also why asking/expecting such people to play fair is often a waste of time. It sort of buys into the notion that we are all playing the same game. Instead of playing with them and hoping for them to not be weasely shits (again), it is up to us to play a different game entirely.
[/quote]
I realise it’s probably a rhetorical question - but I can answer that! - having worked for two companies one of which did fine soldering work and another did microassembly.
It’s perceived that men are not as good at this as women. Also, hourly rates were usually below those of “male” jobs. (I have worked in a company where all the soldering staff were male and I know there really isn’t a gender bias.)
When those traditional male jobs dried up, the people doing them tended to lack manual dexterity (partly because some traditional male jobs are bad for you causing things like white finger and RSI). They could not transfer. The result in some communities was high male unemployment and the women going out to work. Sony in Wales was a good example at the time.
When I did my management training, the emphasis was on piecework for these jobs. This could have interesting sideffects. For instance, my IE team at the time managed to re-engineer one manual job to double the productivity, basically by eliminating errors. This meant that the women in that team were taking home more money than many of the men, especially the forklift drivers. They indicated that there might be industrial unrest. The solution? Tell them that the unofficial agreement was illegal and that all those jobs were now open to women. We wouldn’t want to risk prosecution, would we?
I remember well the day that the first woman forklift driver qualified and drove round the factory yard sounding the horn while the other women cheered and the production director stood looking down from the management suite with an evil grin on his face.
I don’t think it needs to be an either/or, especially considering how important the mass media has become in helping us shape our understanding of the world and each other. DIY media is important and has it’s place, but relegating all conversations to DIY media means that it’s more likely to get ignored by the vast majority of humanity. you might have carved out that communal space (and we absolutely SHOULD do that, as it can be incredibly empowering), but the people who don’t have access to DIY culture (for a variety of reasons) and prefer to engage with mainstream mass media deserve to have voices and acceptance there, as well.
Well, some of us do! But let’s not forget that countercultural spaces aren’t always automatically free from racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, antisemitism, Islamophobia, etc. During the 60s, a major part of the reason that there were radical feminists was because far too often, women ended up doing the copying and coffee making, and being expected to do all the house work in communes, and not take leadership positions, be sexually available and not bother men with our “feelings” etc, or in other words, gendered concepts just replicated themselves in countercultural spaces, causing a feminist backlash. Hardcore punk scenes were also pretty notorious for not being as friendly to women as they should have been (a big step backwards from the original punk scenes, that had more more women, people of color, and queer people than the HC scenes that cropped up later). Riot Grrl was a response to that state of affairs (and many people have criticized Riot Grrl for being pretty white and middle class).
Countercultural spaces don’t have to be woke spaces, in other words.
But as I said in my comments to @Popo_Bawa, even if we decide to make our cultural homes in countercultural spaces, that doesn’t mean we should ignore what the mainstream media is doing, especially countercultural art has become ever bigger business and mass media companies have employed countercultural techniques to production and in pushing consumption for its own sake.
Hahaha that was me!!
And I was a tiny wee skinny thing! I always used to say, “Its not heavy, its just awkward” - once you figured out the swaying centre of gravity you were fine!
Also, I love all you guys!
I have house guests and am running an art gallery in my spare time so this morning at my day job is the only time I’ve had to log in here and OMG so many notifications!
Getting back to the topic on hand… whats interesting to me about Wonder Woman is that so many straight/white/guys (#notallmen) are focussing on the “chest thumping” feminists, and not actually paying attention to the film.
The Amazons costumes are historically accurate and not based on sexy underwear. But based on actual physical examples of ancient armour. Thats amazing! (Click through for fangirling costumers thread, its a fun read!)
And there’s a freaking Blackfoot easter egg, and its take WEEKS for this to get out? How did the nerds miss an easter egg? This is huge! Not just for First Nations communities, but the univese of Wonder Woman just introduced another GOD! And the nerds didn’t even notice… because why? Because boobs? And said new god isn’t white? https://moviepilot.com/p/wonder-woman-introduced-another-god/4299667
Honestly, the second best thing about WW (the first being the movie itself) is how its exposing all the straight/white/male-nerdboy culture for what it is; ie: racist and sexist. I mean, WE knew this, but its good to see others see them for what they are too.
