There’s a few of them, but the relevant one is the Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights in the US. I can see how it might sound like an ordinary part of the religion if you haven’t heard of it, but in truth it’s just an advocacy group. Its president Bill Donohue is famous for things like excusing the child sex abuse scandal as not really so bad as raping children, moral hysteria played up by anti-religious prejudice, and actually to blame on homosexuals. So yeah, Mindy was probably being more respectful than they deserve.
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Is literally, the worst.
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I’m glad we had the discussion because I thought it was just dissing on regular Catholics.
I still think there should be some talk about how to respect religious backgrounds. I think we all trend a bit away from the full on Man in The Sky brand of religion, but still we have a lot of religious backgrounds and some who are more faith centered than others.
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But the best part of being president of the Catholic League is you can say almost anything, impugn nearly anyone, make the most outlandish public statements, and you’re never held accountable.
“Hollywood is controlled by secular Jews who hate Christianity in general and Catholicism in particular,” Donohue declared in 2004.
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As long as you’ve known me, have you ever known me to make bigoted, blanket statements on an entire group of people? Maybe people could have asked me what I meant first or to clarify?
Like I said, half my family are catholic, and I’ve seen people (on the other side of my family) being rather bigoted against them. I’m fairly certain I’ve gotten into arguments with people who have made broad sweeping generalizations about catholics…
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Wow, I need to be more active here, clearly; I missed all of this…
O_O
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I decided to try a public conversation because we hadn’t had any discussions about rules around religion, but I probably should have handled this privately reading the whole thread. My apologies.
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I am the person who flagged the post, and specifically because of the “Catholic League dildos” comment.
I am a devout Catholic, though not a very good one. I am also a member of the Catholic League. I am not a dildo, nor will I stoop to that level of namecalliing. Insulting the League, and indeed Catholics, is a common thing (as this thread shows!) which is the reason the League was formed in the first place. The current anti-Catholic atmosphere around this place has bothered me for some time, so I’ve decided to stop enabling it. If this is the hill I die on, so be it-- there has never been a better one.
I will be the first to agree that the Catholic Church has some major problems and has had them for generations, even centuries. The problem is, of course, that the Catholic laity have no official way to alter Church doctrine. Groups like the Catholic League are a way of making our presence felt to the general public, as well as providing a voice for those of us who have no other voice. And yes, Bill Donohue can be kind of a dick, but he’s our dick, and most Catholic League members support him.
There are some realities of the Catholic Church that you may not be aware. First, by Church dogma and tradition, the Pope is literally infallible and is literally the word of God on earth. Many Catholics (including myself) have some problems with this. (I was born during the reign of Pope Pius XII, who, for someone who supposedly speaks the word of God, was a very bad man. And in the space of 50 years, we have gone from “almost nobody gets into heaven” to “almost everybody gets into heaven” as per subsequent popes, and that’s a tough one to resolve. God changed his mind that much, that fast? Ummm…)
Male-only religious celebrants, abortion, divorces, birth control, LGBTQ rights, etc. It’s quite a list of problems, and one that even we devout Catholics have issues with. Is God wrong? Is the Pope’s interpretation of His word wrong? Are there even such places as Heaven and Hell? Is the whole thing a lie that got out of hand?
Well, Catholics have argued that among ourselves and probably will forever. And we work against dogma in many ways. There are activist priests and lay workers who do our best to make our feelings known to the Church hierarchy. It’s a tough fight, but we have been fighting it for centuries.
As far as this thread goes, I would ask you to substitute the name of any religious, political, sexual, or social group you choose into the above thread. It will make you feel uncomfortable. I will argue that if you don’t respect every group, you don’t really respect any of them.
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Thank you for outing yourself.
In most communication approaches, it’s fundamental to not call names but instead state the facts and your opinion on them. So, instead of calling them “dildos” more what we saw in this thread explaining their policies, things the leadership stands for, etc.
Here on this board, the general trend is against a strong faith based view of the world, which means that here people who are more religious are in the minority.
My first husband was Catholic. He used to do Christmas and Easter, and it seemed important to him. Over the course of our marriage he stopped going. As we neared divorce he told me he was mad at God, but would never say why.
I wished he had kept his faith. I liked him better when he was able to express it.
Most of the Catholics I knew were non practicing but considered themselves Catholic and would not have any other faith. I thought it was strange to not want to go somewhere they felt reflected their own values better.
As a Jew, I would say the closest thing would be to defend Israel despite their treatment of Palestinians being against every tenant of Jewish identity. Still, she is special to all Jews even if the leadership is way right of most American Jews.
I have a lot of hatred against the Catholic Church not just for the pedophilia and cover up if it (among other things), but because they are so out of touch with their followers. I’ve seen how damaging it is to people personally.
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I just want to say you’re a valued member here. I wasn’t part of this discussion, but followed it closely as a learning experience. I also wasn’t aware of the Catholic League, but am aware that the various religions do have political arms, sanctioned or otherwise. And of course anti-defamation organizations, alas needed in our society. I’m most familiar (in name only more or less) of the Jewish Defense League.
The problem I have with the purely political functions of some of these organizations is the attempt to codify religious viewpoints into law. I understand that a lot of the teaching of ethics and morality comes from religion, but we do have to recognize that, in the U.S. at least, we are supposed to have separation of church and state. However, there are big pushes (some very successful) to enact laws that essentially codify religious viewpoints; e.g.:
In my opinion (and that of many people) is that these are purely personal choices, and are nobody else’s business. But the wiki article quoted indeed says that the Catholic League
fights proposed legislation
which I feel is antithetical to the Constitution. Certainly everyone is entitled to writing congress and protesting, but a group advocating putting religious doctrine into law is not a good idea in my opinion.
Reading further into the works of the Catholic League appalls me, in particular their defense of child abuse by church leaders.
So after all this rambling, can you explain why you’re a member of the Catholic League? How do you reconcile some of its more out-there positions?
Again I hope we haven’t made this an unsafe place for you. And if I’ve ever said anything offensive, I apologize - and call me out if I do in the future. I’m a confirmed atheist and have strong opinions about . . . well about everything!
ETA remove duplicate words.
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That only became true on 18 July 1870. Only about two generations out of living memory, and a mere blip in the history of the Catholic Church, and just barely “traditional”.
I learned that in a Catholic high school class, although I admit it’s been long enough I had to double-check the date.
I don’t want anyone to feel unsafe either, but neither will I put up with anyone misrepresenting tradition and expecting not to be challenged on it.
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I don’t know that litigating the history is something that we can expect religious people to do. It’s part of why we aren’t as religious or religious at all, yes, but there are other ways of finding ethical common ground. Clearly, RatMan does not know about or subscribe to the infamous Catholic League Chapter Whatsit that gave Donahue a platform to shout his bigotry. Many Catholic churches are liberal enough that someone could grow up in one church, then drop in on a service in some other town and get the shock of their life. Especially in decades past when people wouldn’t have these discussions in public online.
It’s a generational difficulty, at least.
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Don’t want any, don’t start any. Recall this thread started when a post about suppressing human rights got flagged for using the word “dildo” with regards to a religious group which is active in suppressing human rights.
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That’s a valid point for the discussion. I think that’s central to the defence of the metaphor.
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Indeed. I know few Catholics who will disagree with you. Personally, I’m profoundly anti-abortion, BUT I understand that it is a private issue between a woman and her God. No government, and absolutely no man, has any right to inject themselves into that dialog, nor to interfere in that discussion or her decision. Obviously, some people disagree with me.
Keep in mind, however, that to a Catholic who is a true believer, these are not personal choices; they are literally the word of God. Pope Francis is refreshingly progressive, but that’s small consolation, late in coming, and there’s a lot to progress from.
I’m not going to disagree with you there. Dr. Donohue, the current leader of the Catholic League, has been given some significant beat-down over some of the things he’s said and done recently. Quite frankly, I think this is a position that calls out for someone other than an old white man. It will be interesting to see who the next leader of the League will be.
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Well, no.
It was defined by formal, official declaration during the First Ecumenical Council in 1870, but had been accepted as dogma back to medieval times, and goes back to Jesus’s instructions to the first Pope, Peter.
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Sure, it’s simple. I believe in their stated purpose, which is "the Catholic League defends the right of Catholics – lay and clergy alike – to participate in American public life without defamation or discrimination.
Motivated by the letter and the spirit of the First Amendment, the Catholic League works to safeguard both the religious freedom rights and the free speech rights of Catholics whenever and wherever they are threatened."
[…]
“… today’s brand of anti-Catholicism is more virulent and more pervasive than ever before in American history. While it is true that Catholics as individuals have made progress in securing their rights, the degree of hostility exhibited against the Catholic Church is appalling. Quite simply, Catholic bashing has become a staple of American society.”
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Resistance to efforts of the Catholic church laity (I think the League is laity, right?) to set public law has indeed seen an uptick in the last 50 years. I think that’s as much as the non-religious mindset is going to concede right now on that point.
The League goes back to defense against the Know Nothings an hundred seventy years ago. That shit was much worse than making rude jokes about a very rude man.
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Um… that’s very much someone’s personal opinion, not a fact.
While I don’t doubt that many Catholics do receive more than their fair share of hate from certain sects, I can’t equate that with the ongoing persecution of POC, Trans-folks, Muslims, and various other marginalized groups; not when the Catholic church as an institution wields so much political power.
That said, I’m bowing out of this conversation now, as the whole discussion makes me highly uncomfortable.
I recognize that everyone here deserves respect and that we have to share the safety of the space that we created.
Sadly, vehement conversations of religion and politics all too often bring out the worst in people, even those of us who hold similar core values.
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