Speaking of Faith: discussions on religion (broadly defined)

Which Ten Commandments?

12 Likes
10 Likes

ETA

12 Likes

11 Likes
12 Likes

That law is anti-catholic like NPR live tweeting the declaration of independence was anti-trump.

13 Likes

I can see why they don’t want to report themselves.

9 Likes
12 Likes

I like to look at this just from a legal standpoint, not even considering the new law. So, in US law in general, there are several relationships where the conversations between people are considered “privileged”, meaning that one individual cannot be legally compelled to reveal the details of their communications. An obvious one is attorney-client privilege. Another is the content of therapy sessions between a licensed therapist/psychiatrist/psychologist and their client. Doctor-patient enjoy some protection, although less than the others. And it’s all because of expectations of privacy. When someone is in therapy, they expect that their conversations with their therapist will be confidential. Same with attorneys and their clients. And yes, pastors of all faiths have also long had this privilege in some of their conversations with parishioners, especially in the Catholic rite of confession.

However, all of these examples of privilege have limits and exceptions. A therapist cannot reveal details of their sessions with clients . . . unless they reasonable believe that someone is in imminent danger based on what their client revealed during therapy. For example, if a patient tells his psychologist that he’s going to go home after his therapy session and kill his wife, that therapist is required to report that to the authorities immediately. The privilege those sessions normally have does not protect them from a wrongful death lawsuit if they don’t report it. And it’s the same with attorney-client privilege. If the attorney has knowledge that their client is going to commit a crime, or do something else illegal which could financially harm someone else, they are allowed to report that. They’re also required to notify the court if they know for certain their client or a witness they’ve called is going to commit perjury on the stand, or if they come into knowledge that their client or a witness did commit perjury. They have to know it, though, and not just strongly suspect it. Anyway, my point is, all of these various forms of privilege have limits and exceptions, and I see no reason why the privilege pastors enjoy should be any different. If they learn during confession that a parishioner abused a child, and that child is still in danger from that parishioner, I have no problem with compelling the priest or any other clergy to reveal that information. On the other hand, if the parishioner is confessing to having committed a crime 20 years ago, I don’t think they should be compelled to reveal that, again unless they reasonably believe someone is still in danger from that person.

tl;dr Public safety, especially the safety of children, should be prioritized over the immortal souls of child abusers.

13 Likes
9 Likes

(Continuing here to not derail the other discussion)

But did he never sin? I mean he did say that famous, “let him without sin” quote. I’d like to think he didn’t mean to qualify that with, “… but not me, because I’m Jesus, motherfuckers.” I’d have to imagine that as an imperfect human, he would be just as fallible as another and did some things that could be considered immoral or sinful.

Who’s to say he wasn’t a gloomy teenager that lashed out at his mother? Maybe when he was learning carpentry, he hit his thumb with a hammer and used his father’s name in vain? There’s just not a lot out there to answer these important questions as far as I’m aware.

But I’m not a religious scholar, so I’m sure I’m missing some nuance here.

Either way, it’s an interesting thought experiment.

5 Likes

Apparently he canonically did not:

2 Corinthians 5:21 – “God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.”

Hebrews 4:14-15 – “Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has ascended into heaven, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are, yet he did not sin.”

7 Likes

[somebody throws a stone]

Jesus, irritated: “Mom, I’m trying to make a point here!”

11 Likes

I also wanted to comment on this part (not criticise, just explain the way I see things):

My personal reasoning (as a lifelong atheist and appreciator of fiction), is that he knew Judas was going to betray him, but also knew that it was a necessary part of the process and was also the ultimate display of forgiveness to forgive Judas.

Even to an atheist, this is an incredibly powerful moral message; or maybe especially to an atheist, who believes everyone only has one chance at life and should therefore treat everyone with respect and understanding in order to be treated the same in turn.

Mind you, also as an atheist, I could never understand people blaming Jews as a whole for getting Jesus killed when one, it was the Romans that did the actual killing, and two, Jesus, aside from being Jewish himself, surrounded himself with a bunch of other Jewish dudes who never betrayed him.

Or rather, sadly I could understand.

Some people are just bigoted assholes and will use any excuse to persecute those that they perceive as “different.”
And the Bible ended up primarily being distributed by the actual perpetrators, and as can be easily quipped, history is written by the victors.

11 Likes

Interesting!

It was Judas who got me my first theological trip to the principal’s office in Catholic grade school. In religion class, Sister Adalbert said that Judas had a special place in hell because he betrayed Christ and, to top it off, killed himself.

My hand shot up.

But, Sister, if Judas hadn’t done what he did, we wouldn’t be here. (i.e. there wouldn’t be any Christianity / Catholicism).

Sister Adalbert did not like that one little bit.

These days, I am a Unitarian Universalist agnostic. I hope there is a god, and that that god is the god of the Universalists.

12 Likes

I mean, you could have really wound her up by pointing out that by Jesus forgiving Judas, he actually guaranteed him a place in heaven…

11 Likes

I hadn’t thought of that! It was 6th grade, after all. I wasn’t exactly a deep theologian at the time. Not that I am one now… :thinking:

8 Likes

Judas kills himself because he repents the betrayal too, which you’d think would factor into things. But to be clear I was wondering about the actual Christian positions on these things. Plainly if you’re not, questions like whether Jesus ever erred won’t have the same answer.

8 Likes
6 Likes
5 Likes