Original tweet deleted, probably in response to the critique.
This is the main reason why folks often use screencaps; to preserve the evidence.
2 Likes
Three reasons I didn’t.
- The image was disturbing.
- It doesn’t allow looking into further context the way a link does.
- When I have in the past, I have had people upset because of 2.
3 Likes
Both whataboutism (“appeal to hypocrisy” if you want a more formal term) and accusations of whataboutism are rhetorical tactics.
Like most rhetorical moves, the ethics and validity depend on how and why they’re used. The tactics themselves are ethically neutral.
When used to puncture offensive hypocrisy, I find it quite effective:
I don’t throw that quote around often, because it’s a bit aggressive and tends to piss people off. But it comes in handy whenever somebody starts uncritically citing Jefferson.
—
I think the key point of the original thread was not “whataboutism is always good”. Instead, it was “portraying this routine rhetorical move as some sort of cunning Soviet mind-trick is rather silly, and the motivations behind promoting that meme are highly suspect”.
4 Likes
BTW, since we’re discussing rhetorical tricks, a demonstration from this thread:
In particular, this paragraph:
There’s a bit of sneakiness in the second sentence of that paragraph.
That sentence could have just as easily been “The roots of this go back to the Revolutionary War”, or “The roots of this go back to the country’s founding”, or many other such things.
I used “birth of the nation” in that sentence for a specific reason. I wanted to evoke some cultural history without explicitly doing so, because it supported my overall argument but would have been a bit heavy-handed to include overtly.
This history:
Rhetoric can be used to cover for the lack of a reasoned argument, but it can also be used to sharpen a valid one. As always, it comes down to how and why you use it.
2 Likes
Also, the main reason why I do screencaps: cutting and pasting a dozen different Twitter links on an iPad is a pain in the arse.
And, sometimes, I do it to maintain the visual arrangement of tweets and images. Onebox messes things up at times.
1 Like
Thread:
1 Like
Example of bad whataboutism:
2 Likes
1 Like
Let them eat real estate investment
4 Likes
These are all pretend rich people. They are doing jobs anyone out of college could (and do) do, but they are late in their careers.
Even the second list:
The only odd one out is Tom Anslow who did a lot of working class and middle class work and has the lowest rating for Trump in the group. These are all people who made good money at one point and live above their means.
3 Likes
Pretend rich people, but also pretend poor people. None of them are what I’d call rich, nor am I impressed by their jobs. However, they are far from poor, and have a lot of advantages and privilege.
A thriving working class is something we desperately need, but nobody is entitled to anything. These people are deluded, both about their social class and about what it takes to make America great again.
6 Likes
2 Likes
Still doing it…
Context: @coffeespoonie is a Jewish disability rights activist. Wheelchair mobile, not a noted streetfighter.
I didn’t post the original thread here before it was deleted, because I get enough accusations of promoting violence already. It’s not my preferred approach, even rhetorically.
Still: interesting, on multiple levels. The original tweet, the audience response, the Twitter shutdown, etc.
4 Likes
Yeah. I would have less of a problem, if Twitter actually applied the same rules to Nazis.
3 Likes
Yup.
Rust belt Trumpists have mostly been presented as the “white working class”, though.
I posted it to reinforce my old point about the middle-class nature of the Trumpist base. Most of these folks are no more working class than Joe the Plumber.
Similarly, this Tweet was posted to reinforce this argument:
—
Not quite anyone.
I’m in my 40’s, and have a doctorate.
My Asperger’s somewhat limited my career options before I was really sick. Now, I’m pretty much restricted to flexible part time jobs that don’t require sustained concentration or dealing with people. If I lose my current one, I am unlikely to be able to pass a job interview for any other employment.
4 Likes
Less of a problem, but still not ideal.
I don’t want a level playing field with Nazis. I want them at the bottom of a very steep hill.
1 Like
Well, right now we have a standard where neo-Nazis can threaten death, attack people during their marches, have the police look aside and only arrest a few of their people under public pressure, and have the police arrest some of their victims.
… meanwhile DisruptJ20 didn’t threaten death, didn’t attack people, and did get kettled and mass-arrested with prosecutors trumping up felony charges.
Right now, we are a the bottom of a very steep hill.
3 Likes
The political spectrum:
Some people see a world of bosses and workers, and think “I want to be the boss”.
Some people see a world of bosses and workers, and think “I don’t want to be one of those boss bastards”.
Some people see a world of bosses and workers, and think “the whole concept of boss is deeply fucked up”.
6 Likes