Wanderthread

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This whole podcast is worthwhile, but the last twenty minutes are particularly relevant to techniques of imperialist propaganda.

A long running theme of left Twitter is “even the fantasies of establishment Dems are appalling”.

A common feature of LibTwitter is fantasy tweets along the lines of “on Earth 2, my favourite Democrat reaches a bipartisan deal with the GOP in order to slightly improve the appearance of horrific class exploitation”.

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The US military under the control of the Trumpists brings a whole new meaning to “the stupid, it burns…”.

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The last bit, at 26:19, is particularly interesting.

Published on May 23, 2015UK Rapper Akala talking on the following topics: reclaiming the n-word, n***ers in paris, medical apartheid, rap music, lynchings, great britain empire, white man’s burden, the monarchy, immigration, christian fundamentalism, idea of white is right, growing up pressures, marriage, bully parents, white racism violence, Black music, white privilege, police role in society, killing of Black men, inherited privilege, corporate exploitation, global systems of trade, english language, fall of western empire, the return of China, Haitian revolution, reparations, Caribbean, Obama

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The one about how no-ones going to look at your browser history needs this link

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Stalinists are scum. Are all capitalists responsible for the Gestapo?

@GhoulishGrace is an anarcho-communist, BTW. I expect her reaction to comparisons to the GDR or USSR would be rather vigorous.

(also, as a reminder: I’m not a communist. Usually a reformist DemSoc, forced into revolutionary DemSoc by circumstances)

agreed. Growing up in Alabama, there is such a conversation about race there. And up North if even mention black people, people look at me like I have two heads. You aren’t allowed to . discuss it

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Around the same time, they [working class voters] will realize that suburban white-collar workers - themselves desparately afraid of being downsized - are not going to let themselves be taxed to provide social benefits for anyone else.

At that point something will crack. The nonsuburban electorate will decide that the system has failed and start looking around for a strongman to vote for - someone willing to assure them that, once he is elected, the smug bureaucrats, tricky lawyers, overpaid bond salesman, and postmodernist professors will no longer be calling the shots…

One thing that is very likely to happen is that the gains made in the past forty years by black and brown Americans, and by homosexuals, will be wipe out. Jocular contempt for women will come back into fashion… All the resentment which badly educated Americans feel about having their manners dictated to them by college graduates will find an outlet.

Except that argument wasn’t just that the working class would lead to a Trumpian figure, it literally says white fear across social class would be led to a Trump - which is 100% accurate. The true Republicans - the suburbanites making white collar wages - is the core of Trump’s base, but his targeting of race and immigration brought in the most white and male votes possible.

This is exactly what happened. The first line makes it clear that the upper middle class will always vote for the Republican, the second makes it clear that rural voters will overwhelmingly support a strong populist that promises to screw over the elites, and the third says that it will be a reversal of any political support for anything that isn’t straight white male. It doesn’t matter that the working class didn’t shift as Republican as the upper middle class, it just matters that millions of working class voters (particularly rural working class) got convinced that Trump would drain the swamp, build the wall, and quash the slight equalization between races that they feel has fucked them over - or at least that there wasn’t any reason to oppose those things.

I have and will continue to defend people against placing all the blame on the working class, but I will also point out that white people overwhelmingly voted for trump and so did men. It’s extremely important to realize how it’s complicated, and that no one actually knows if those groups (white people and men) would have actually supported Sanders over Trump - there is a lot more money behind convincing those groups Trump was the panacea, which is obvious when you look at who is still backing Trump.

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I see it as a further layer of abstraction between humans and the production of value? Also, I think it would widen the gap that already exists between classes…

What do you think are the positives of going cashless, given the current economic system?

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The establishment LGBT lobby is just as corrupt as the establishment everything else. The hrc.org has utterly disgraced themselves over the last few years.

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Not a lot.

OTOH, I live an almost cashless life myself these days. Not all of the stuff about convenience and efficiency is total bullshit. I haven’t been inside a bank in years, and pretty much all of my legal purchases are done with a debit card.

…which suggests one of the obvious downsides: cash is important to the underground economy, and the underground is an important bulwark against totalitarianism. The Young Lords began as a street gang.

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In what way does APCO Worldwide even come close to a “LGBT lobby?” It’s a business whose American executive staff allowed a token celebration of Pride within the United States, probably as some sort of carbon-tax-like method to spin their operation in Egypt. They’re typical corporate scum.

APCO is a for-profit lobbying firm, not the lobby itself. I was using the story as a springboard to comment on the HRC.

The LGBT left has been opposed to the establishment lobby for a long time.

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Yeah, my daughter and I have had conversations about the HRC. We’ve discussed that they are a good organization for people just learning about LGBT issues as they are more friendly to straights, and do a good job of getting the message of equality out, but problematic once you get to know more about gay rights.

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They’re the lobby for the folks that Armistead Maupin described as “A-gays”.

Rich white gay Hollywood producer? The HRC has your back. Poor transgender sex worker of colour? Not so much.

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I’m not disagreeing about HRC, but APCO is a PR consultation corporation and has nothing to do with lobbying policy.

It accepts money to do what focus groups and wealthy people think is best for other wealthy people to get away with bad things. It’s their entire existence that they make over $100 million each year for. They profit from lobbyists a lot, but they are just a standard fare corporation.

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More bad whataboutism from centre-right Dem Twitter:

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