Wanderthread

Around the same time, they [working class voters] will realize that suburban white-collar workers - themselves desparately afraid of being downsized - are not going to let themselves be taxed to provide social benefits for anyone else.

At that point something will crack. The nonsuburban electorate will decide that the system has failed and start looking around for a strongman to vote for - someone willing to assure them that, once he is elected, the smug bureaucrats, tricky lawyers, overpaid bond salesman, and postmodernist professors will no longer be calling the shots…

One thing that is very likely to happen is that the gains made in the past forty years by black and brown Americans, and by homosexuals, will be wipe out. Jocular contempt for women will come back into fashion… All the resentment which badly educated Americans feel about having their manners dictated to them by college graduates will find an outlet.

Except that argument wasn’t just that the working class would lead to a Trumpian figure, it literally says white fear across social class would be led to a Trump - which is 100% accurate. The true Republicans - the suburbanites making white collar wages - is the core of Trump’s base, but his targeting of race and immigration brought in the most white and male votes possible.

This is exactly what happened. The first line makes it clear that the upper middle class will always vote for the Republican, the second makes it clear that rural voters will overwhelmingly support a strong populist that promises to screw over the elites, and the third says that it will be a reversal of any political support for anything that isn’t straight white male. It doesn’t matter that the working class didn’t shift as Republican as the upper middle class, it just matters that millions of working class voters (particularly rural working class) got convinced that Trump would drain the swamp, build the wall, and quash the slight equalization between races that they feel has fucked them over - or at least that there wasn’t any reason to oppose those things.

I have and will continue to defend people against placing all the blame on the working class, but I will also point out that white people overwhelmingly voted for trump and so did men. It’s extremely important to realize how it’s complicated, and that no one actually knows if those groups (white people and men) would have actually supported Sanders over Trump - there is a lot more money behind convincing those groups Trump was the panacea, which is obvious when you look at who is still backing Trump.

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I see it as a further layer of abstraction between humans and the production of value? Also, I think it would widen the gap that already exists between classes…

What do you think are the positives of going cashless, given the current economic system?

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The establishment LGBT lobby is just as corrupt as the establishment everything else. The hrc.org has utterly disgraced themselves over the last few years.

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Not a lot.

OTOH, I live an almost cashless life myself these days. Not all of the stuff about convenience and efficiency is total bullshit. I haven’t been inside a bank in years, and pretty much all of my legal purchases are done with a debit card.

…which suggests one of the obvious downsides: cash is important to the underground economy, and the underground is an important bulwark against totalitarianism. The Young Lords began as a street gang.

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In what way does APCO Worldwide even come close to a “LGBT lobby?” It’s a business whose American executive staff allowed a token celebration of Pride within the United States, probably as some sort of carbon-tax-like method to spin their operation in Egypt. They’re typical corporate scum.

APCO is a for-profit lobbying firm, not the lobby itself. I was using the story as a springboard to comment on the HRC.

The LGBT left has been opposed to the establishment lobby for a long time.

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Yeah, my daughter and I have had conversations about the HRC. We’ve discussed that they are a good organization for people just learning about LGBT issues as they are more friendly to straights, and do a good job of getting the message of equality out, but problematic once you get to know more about gay rights.

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They’re the lobby for the folks that Armistead Maupin described as “A-gays”.

Rich white gay Hollywood producer? The HRC has your back. Poor transgender sex worker of colour? Not so much.

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I’m not disagreeing about HRC, but APCO is a PR consultation corporation and has nothing to do with lobbying policy.

It accepts money to do what focus groups and wealthy people think is best for other wealthy people to get away with bad things. It’s their entire existence that they make over $100 million each year for. They profit from lobbyists a lot, but they are just a standard fare corporation.

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More bad whataboutism from centre-right Dem Twitter:

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https://mobile.twitter.com/omanreagan/status/938509046935461888

https://twitter.com/OmanReagan/status/938509841248612352?s=17

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Yikes.

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Is there a missing word in that sentence? Giving a share of the blame to the WWC is defensible, placing all of it there isn’t.

I was primarily posting that thread to highlight Beth’s comment about the disconnect in perception between herself and her mother. I barely looked at the Rorty piece.

OTOH, Beth and Paul aren’t arguing that the WWC didn’t vote for Trump; they’re saying that the Trumpist core is primarily affluent rather than working class.

All white demographics supported Trump, but his support was weakest amongst the working class. The WWC-focused narrative doesn’t reflect reality, and provides a handy excuse for the privileged to avoid confronting their own responsibility.

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The Romans were the masters
When Jesus walked the land
In Judea and in Galilee
They ruled with an iron hand
The poor were sick with hunger
And the rich were clothed in splendour
And the rebels, whipped and crucified
Hung rotting as a warning

And Jesus knew the answer -
“Give unto Caesar what is Caesar’s”
Said, “Love your enemies”
But Judas was a Zealot and he
Wanted to be free
“Resist”, he said, “the Romans’ tyranny”

So stand up, stand up for Judas
And the cause that Judas served
It was Jesus who betrayed the poor with his word

Now Jesus was a conjuror,
Miracles were his game
He fed the hungry thousands
And they glorified his name
He cured the lame and leper
He calmed the wind and the weather
And the wretched flocked to touch him
So their troubles would be taken
And Jesus knew the answer -
"All you who labour, all you who suffer
Only believe in me"

But Judas sought a world where no-one
Starved or begged for bread
“The poor are always with us”, Jesus said

Now Jesus sowed division
Where none had been before
Not the slave against the master
But the poor against the poor
Caused son to rise up against father
And brother to fight against brother
For "He that is not with me
Is against me" was his teaching
Said Jesus, "I am the answer
You unbelievers shall burn forever
Shall die in your sins"

“Not sheep or goats” said Judas but
"Together we may dare
Shake off the chains of tyranny we share"

Jesus stood upon the mountain
With a distance in his eyes
“I am the Way, the Life” he cried
"The Light that never dies
So renounce all earthly treasures
And pray to your heavenly father"
And he pacified the hopeless
With the hope of life eternal
Said Jesus, "I am the answer
And you who hunger only remember
Your reward’s in heaven"

So Jesus preached the other world
But Judas wanted this
And he betrayed his master with a kiss

By sword and gun and crucifix
Christ’s gospel has been spread
And two thousand cruel years have shown
The way that Jesus led
The heretics burned and tortured
And the butchering bloody Crusaders
The bombs and rockets sanctified
That rain down death from heaven

They followed Jesus, they knew the answer
All unbelievers must be believers
Or else be broken

“So place no trust in saviours”
Judas said, "for everyone
Must be to his or her own self a sun"

Jacobin have been fucking up repeatedly lately…

As mentioned previously, the longer this goes, the more polarised things get. The hard radical crew are increasingly dismissive of the “centrist” DSA.

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(not criticising Tamika, just springboarding)

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