Weird thought: the development of forensic science was a substantial step back for women, as it negated their traditional means of self-defence.
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It’s that time of year again…
Frankly, I like the song, but I can see why women would be uncomfortable listening to it, and why stations wouldn’t want to play it, and I think it’s a bit absurd how much backlash this [edit for clarification: by which I mean, cancelling it] is getting.
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Can we at least all agree it’s a shitty song?
Seriously. I’m not that worried about a woman teasingly asking, “what’s in this drink?” and all the other banter-type stuff that goes on in that song. I just hate it because it’s a shitty song. It just seems so smug, because they both know nobody has to really worry about going out in the cold.
Also, and this may be regional, I don’t remember ever hearing it until a few years ago. That is, it had gone the way of most Christmas songs.
While we’re at it, can we ban Christmas music for being shitty in general? Especially [shudder] Christmas hold music?
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As I said, I enjoy it. It’s a duet, and it tells a story, which are two things that I look for in my songs.
…
I don’t get it.
Yes, “it’s cold outside” is a transparent pretext, from the beginning of the song to the end, but that’s the whole point of the song. I don’t get how that’s “smug.”
Of course you realize, this means war.
Edit to add: Yes, there’s shitty Christmas music (looking at you, “Do They Know It’s Christmas” and “The Gift”), and yes, far too much of it is Christocentric (as pointed out hilariously in Straight No Chaser’s “Christmas Can-Can”), which sucks for anyone who’s not Christian. But it’s the one time of year that is socially acceptable for people to sing unselfconsciously, and when everyone knows all of the tunes and the lyrics. It makes singing a community affair, which it so rarely is these days. This is why I hate it when singers add excessive ornamentation to their renditions: Christmas carols are meant to be sung along to, so making it impossible to do so is just inconsiderate.
Plus, some of these Christmas carols are just arranged gorgeously. Especially the a cappella versions I’ve taken to listening to recently.
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The thing about “Baby It’s Cold Outside” that I’ve never seen mentioned is that you can’t argue it’s a sly way for a woman in 1944 to get away with having lustful feelings but not wanting to be labeled a slut, for two reasons:
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No one at the time who would label the woman a slut would care that there was sophisticated banter leading up to her succumbing; in fact, women were taught that men would try to convince them in such ways, and it was their job to fight it SUCCESSFULLY, because if they didn’t they’d be labeled a slut;
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The song wasn’t written by a woman, or a male feminist. It was not meant to be woman-supportive. It was supposed to be a nudge-nudge-wink-wink song that men would like and women would know to giggle at but take to heart the underlying caution.
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Isn’t that what she spends the whole song arguing?
“The neighbours will think…”
“I ought to say, ‘No, no, no, sir,’ / At least then I could say that I tried…”
“My sister will be suspicious”
“My maiden aunt’s mind is vicious”
“There’s bound to be talk tomorrow; / At least there will be plenty implied…”
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At best, it’s kink that fits better in kink-space.
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Yeah; as I’ve said previously, I’m more than okay with this being retired as a Christmas classic, despite my personal enjoyment of the song.
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Or needs to be stopped, in Feyd’s case.
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If the song ended with her regretfully leaving, that would be one thing, but it ends with them singing “baby it’s cold outside” together as the last line, which implies that the banter would go on until she had run out of will to counter him. After all, “what’s the sense in hurting my pride”, right?
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Yeah, the one time of year when all the Christmas people can be loud about it and those of us who are not turn into hermits.
Sportsball games are a place people can sing unselfconsciously virtually all year long.
Football (of the soccer type especially) has lots of singing. Some songs, like Liverpool’s You’ll Never Walk Alone, are classics known well beyond sports.
Not into sports? I’m not into Christmas. I want a Fortress of Non-Christmas Solitude I can retreat to. Ideally from Halloween until after New Year, but I can’t take that much time off.
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The “hurting my pride”/“cold outside” rhyme is at the halfway point (another time when they both sing the title of the song in harmony); the song ends with “caught pneumonia and died”/“cold outside.”
Again, that implies a note of coercion that just doesn’t seem to be present in the original text. The banter will go on until she leaves or is convinced to stay.
You have a point, though, that this was written by a man, almost certainly for the enjoyment of other men with little, if any, regard given to what women would think of it. The fact that the names given to the man and woman in the song are ‘Wolf’ and ‘Mouse’ respectively says a lot.
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Yes. You get your ten months where you’re comfortable in silence; I get my two months when I’m comfortable letting my voice free, rather than having to retreat into hermitage to sing.
Been to hockey games, been to baseball games. Not much singing except the anthem and the seventh-inning stretch.
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This. So much this. I spent 15 years working retail over Christmas. The last 6 of those were concurrent with the worst workplace harassment I have ever experienced and that 10 years later I have still not fully recovered from. Christmas music is a massive trigger for me. I keep CDs in my car just for Christmas so when the saturation point on the radio hits, I can avoid it.
We live in an amazing time, where people who want to listen to it have options to do so that don’t impact the rest of us. There are so many options.
And, yes, I have gotten into fights with people who feel I am impinging on their rights by asking a) that they use headphones and b) them deciding to mock me for my avoidance by turning up the radio “just for @MalevolentPixy”. And I will continue to fight it.
You (general) are free to speak and express yourself. That doesn’t mean that the rest of us should be compelled to listen.
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No. I get ten months hanging on by my fingernails, and two months of being forced to be a Christian and having my solstice ruined. Again.
And for the record, I do love to sing, even though I’m terrible at it. What do you think would happen to a group of Pagan carollers in most places in North America?
I’m okay with everyone else celebrating. I am not okay with it being shoved down my throat for eight weeks a year.
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That was the first song that I thought of when @gadgetgirl mentioned “shitty christmas music”
Do you know any good Solstice Songs? That does remind me I need to put up my Pleasant Saturnalia signs up in my office. Everything is just so busy this time of year.
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The only one I know at all is Deck the Halls, which in most version of the lyrics notably does not mention Christmas at all, only Yuletide.
The Spruce has some interesting info on the topic:
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Love that one! Don’t even care what time of year. The whole album is lovely.
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Since it’s Christmas music, that shouldn’t be surprising. Actually, it’s the secular holiday dreck that I can’t stand: Frosty the %#$&$# snowman, Rudolph, et al. The traditional religious carols have stood the test of time. They were written by people with genuine faith, and that shows through. I’m not religious in any real sense, but some of the music is magnificent. I’m especially drawn to some of the older and less-played carols like The Holly and the Ivy and The Cherry Tree Carol.
We agree there, but probably from different perspectives. I’d be happy if the season lasted two weeks rather than two months, and if the whole commercial potlatch aspects of it were toned down or eliminated. But annual celebrations of one type or another are almost universal, and people seem to need them as a way of recognizing the passage of time, or defying the gloom of winter, or reminding themselves of the need to treat others kindly. I have good memories of Christmas as a time of getting together with family and friends, and I try to let the rest of the Xmas crap roll off me.
In a country that is still culturally Christian, if not religiously so, there’s no way to escape Christmas. If I were living in India, I would not go around asking folks to tone down all the Diwali stuff. There’d be no point.
Lots of Xmas traditions and symbols are repurposed pagan ones.
This song for example, which refers to Anglo-Saxon tradition (although the song is not that old), only mentions New Year’s.
This is new to me. Probably not appropriate for a vegan Solstice.
There are some others that only mention Christianity in passing, Good King Wenceslas for example. Many of them emphasize the need for charity and generosity.
I imagine “God bless you” said in the southern US sense of “bless your heart”. 
Waes hael!
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