Regardless of Thiel’s personal competence he would still need many, many co-conspirators to pull off a multi-state election conspiracy. The more people involved in a conspiracy, the less likely it is to stay secret. Even for the short-term.
For the most part the billionaires aren’t bothering to keep their interference secret because they don’t NEED to.
But most people use paper ballots… I’m not sure how Thiel can change votes that are already on paper…
and yeah, it’s STILL possible… and if there are issues, it’s less via that and more via the stuff with uncured ballots (which @chgoliz has mentioned with regards to her daughter’s vote). In many places, too, the count is still happening too (especially in CA). We won’t know the full vote count until that’s done, and that includes uncured ballots…
So… I don’t want to dismiss a conspiracy out of hand, but we need some evidence of such a thing.
This feels a bit like saying that billionaires can’t pull off price fixing.
They have tons of money, ratfuckers & intelligence agencies types on tap.
I agree with that… But I’m not willing to say that’s what happened here just yet…
Price fixing is comparatively easy when a handful of self-interested parties are the ones setting the prices. And they STILL get caught doing that shit.
Changing millions of votes would involve a lot of people and could be exposed any number of ways. Not outside the realm of possibility, but as @mindysan33 not yet in evidence.
And I don’t want to dismiss it out of hand, but I also want to understand what actually happened, and I’m not willing to say it must have been rigged, because… well, I know this country and I know that misogyny and racism can drive voters to vote against their own interests.
I don’t know…
Also - if the Democrats were to throw trans folks under the bus, the bigots would immediately turn on the cis queer people. It’s been shown, time and time and time again, that this kind of appeasement will never work in the long term.
Agree. We all know they did some nefarious things. But enough to swing the election- to be proven.
We already have a conspiracy to elect Trump right in the open anyway. It’s the entire media ecosystem. Something I don’t think I’ve heard brought up at all in this is Citizens United, how it’s been ruled ok for billionaires to spend unlimited money spreading ridiculous lies, like that’s just part of the natural order and has nothing to do with the billionaires’ candidate getting elected. It’s not, it’s a huge dump on the scales that has no right to be there.
I suppose a plutocracy/oligarchy IS a “conspiracy.”
FEMA supervisor who told team to ‘avoid’ homes with Trump signs says she’s a ‘patsy’
Washington told the Washington Examiner that not only did she and her teams canvas houses with Trump signage, “we’ve registered and provided resources to Trump supporters.”
The language in the leaked screenshot was “shorthand,” according to Washington. She explained the full context: Washington let her supervisors “know specific streets we could not do because of hostile political encounters,” and according to communications obtained by the Washington Examiner, she was encouraged and supported in her decision to avoid certain streets “to keep the team safe.”
Heck, why bother to organize an illegal conspiracy when you can just use your wealth and influence to legalize everything you want to do?
I don’t think it’s at the ballot/voter or even precinct level. They learned in 2020 that those segments of the system are not vulnerable.
I don’t think it’s at the state level, either. Likewise, T**** learned that even GOP officials like Raffensperger have too much integrity.
The initial results of each precinct’s vote tallys are reported to the county, aggregated, then reported to the state. It seems like this is the short-term weak point. A relatively small number of people can create large result distortion by changing the results at the county level. And it’s weeks between when those unofficial results are reported and when they check the actual ballots and audit the counts. If incongruities start showing up in late November/early December, it’s nearly too late to do anything about it. And even then, once the public perceives that a winner was chosen, it’s really really hard to reverse that perception.
They don’t need a conspiracy, just a reminder to every precinct to be extra-specially-doubly-sure about signatures from any mail-in votes from younger people, who supposedly don’t know how to sign their name correctly.
Yeah, I think that @chenille is correct on that… It is a conspiracy.
So you think it’s underreporting to the state from the precinct level? Could be…
That’s what we need to be paying attention for, then. It seems like an organization like Pro-Publica could focus on that in the coming weeks.
I guess my question is about numbers. Every vote SHOULD be counted, of course, but would the people who are not having their ballots cured equal swinging the election… That, I don’t know…
IIRC, vote tallies get reported from the precinct level to the county, then to the state. It seems to me like the level with the highest payoff at lowest scrutiny is the county level. Pick a handful of counties with high Dem population and skim a hundred thousand or so votes off the top and you’ve won the state. Repeat in a handful of states and you’ve won the EC.
It also reduces the number of people who need to be compromised to a dozen or so, reducing risk of discovery until it’s too late.
That’s a really useful suggestion!
I don’t think that could account for the 7M+ votes. It could account for enough votes to swing states that were close like Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Arizona.
I wonder if Gerg Palast in on it. He has been with previous elections. Not that much of anyone listened to his reporting.
Maybe, but people doing that at the county level are employees, not just volunteers? There was talk about the board in GA and in some counties having MAGA people on them, but the boards are elected bodies that can only certify the election. There are paid employees doing the work. I know there was talk about Trumpers getting these jobs, but most of these jobs are likely held by people committed to doing the work… I grant you that it’s possible, but I’m guessing it’s not enough people in larger blue counties to change a democratic district to a republican one.
Here, at least, all the counties that vote blue solidly went blue. Fulton and Dekalb were over 70 or 80% for Harris… my county was nearly 60% for Harris… I don’t think there were any unexpected places that had a history of voting blue that went for Trump (including in other cities around the state and across the Black belt)… She underperformed in some areas, for sure, but there could be a number of reasons for that.
Hell, someone could even suggest it to them! Or any other organization that is known for investigative journalism.
That’s far enough, but they know the number of mail votes (which have yet to be counted or are uncured) and the number of total voters in the district, precinct, county, state, etc, so when they call a specific place for which ever candidate, I think that they are saying that the uncounted/uncured ballots would not be enough to swing an election… I may be wrong about that.
Is he at Pro-publica? Or does he write at another place…