When women do these types of things IME, it’s often because the world is a scary place, not just because the guy is particularly scary. Usually it’s some mixture of the world being scary and the guy being scary. Meaning, it’s pushback against the man trying too hard to bulldoze through the woman’s already overtaxed defense mechanisms, rather than him earning her trust. Sure, it could be poor social skills, but it could just as easily be a sign of something much worse.
For me, it was hard to learn that I shouldn’t take stuff like this personally, because pushback like this is because the world is a scary place. It’s not a judgment of me as a person.
This is what needs to change. My sister is going through a sexual assault thing at work (not her, at least not her right now). The dude isn’t grabbing pussies, but he’s got a reputation for making women feel uncomfortable. In the wake of Weinstein, one woman finally filed a complaint and lo and behold! Women are now coming out of the wood work in the ensuing investigation, with comments from other men: “Yeah, we told the young associates to steer clear.” That’s the attitude that must change. Fuck pulling the new girl in accounting aside to cut a wide swath around Keith* – if you’re a person in power, say something. That’s your moral responsibility.
*no offense meant if your name is Keith. I just knew an asshole named Keith and that’s my go-to.
No one said being a decent, kind person is unwelcome. I’m not sure you’re reading this thread with an open mind and really listening we’re actually saying about the issues in our life. If you help someone out, you shouldn’t do it, because it’s a woman, who is the “weaker sex” and needs men to help her navigate the world. If you do it, do it because it’s a nice thing to do that makes the world a little better for everyone. Don’t treat men and women in your life differently, treat them as if they are human beings, worthy of dignity and respect.
We all suffer from unconscious biases! And even when we study it, even when subjects know they are being studied for unconscious gender bias and try to correct for it, they STILL display it unconcious bias!
“…teachers who tried to restore the balance by deliberately ‘favouring’ the girls were astounded to find that despite their efforts they continued to devote more time to the boys in their classrooms. Another study reported that a male science teacher who managed to create an atmosphere in which girls and boys contributed more equally to discussion felt that he was devoting 90 per cent of his attention to the girls. And so did his male pupils. They complained vociferously that the girls were getting too much talking time.”
Cultural and social conditioning starts even before a baby is born! People will tell that male and female babies act differently in-utero!! Its insidious and its part of every part of our society today. So while you think you’re being neutral and not favouring one over the other, you’re likely not, you’re likely as biased as everyone else.
This is why we can’t rest on our laurels and say “I don’t do this” - because we do, we all do it, and accepting that and learning from that and addressing it is the only way forward!
I was reading Andrea Dworkin’s “Renouncing Sexual ‘Equality’”, (in Our Blood) so I’m wondering if men are wired for the male sexual model, and if heterosexual women [P.S. and of course gay men] are wired for attraction to it. If so, it may be too much to ask men to reject the male sexual model.
The problem with this and any other kind of essentialism is that human beings behave across spectrums, not in neat categories. There’s always going to be people whose behaviour doesn’t fit in the right box, and always far more of them than essentialists will acknowledge. If there weren’t, or history wouldn’t have so many incidents of harsh punishments for witchcraft or corrupting youth or whatever someone’s decided to freak out about this week.
If it were truly innate, we wouldn’t have to spend so much time working towards it and suppressing anything that didn’t fit. Not murdering people? As much as some people annoy me, I’ve never had to worry about actually killing any of them. Presenting culturally acceptable femininity? I have to worry about that all the time, and I’m cishet and generally like things deemed feminine.
For many people, being attracted to another sex may be innate. For many other people, not being attracted and/or refusing to be available get punished. The latter doesn’t contradict the former.
For many people, phallocentrism may be innate. If so, it would be too much to those people to reject it.
I know I don’t understand men-- I would like to know what they think of Dworkin’s ideas here.
i’m a cisgendered male with a bisexual attraction. i’ve pushed boundaries since i was in high school in the 70s and i still have an occasional flair for androgyny surprising in a man with a santa beard. i think people on the whole spend way too much time and effort trying to conform to normative behaviors and there exists a subset of people which is way too big of people trying to enforce normative behaviors.
this is a subject close to my heart. my parents instilled in me a mental toughness from an early age to keep me centered in what i know in my heart is right or necessary. not everyone has that and i will preach when i see the strong or the privileged making an easy target of the weak. i’ve shamed two groups of students and one group of teachers over the years over issues swirling around this subject.
For as much as many people like to spout off about ‘individualism’, there sure does seem to be a lot of compulsion to conform, and to force conformity upon others.
I say as long as you’re not harming anyone, live and let freakin’ live.
