Playing God with personal beliefs

We need a topic about how religion/belief systems are being used as a basis for political and other public actions that affect entire groups of people and/or the planet. At least, I do! And the one I’d been using has been locked, so I’m starting another.

All this time, I thought he was trying to one-up his daddy.


Good topic. I believe this of shrub. He was too dumb to take the Bible as literature, moral musings, and metaphor, as are so many people who use religion as a substitute for thought.


This casts an ominous pall over the needless war that killed more than 4,000 young Americans and cost U.S. taxpayers perhaps $1 trillion.

Not to mention how many Iraqis killed?


I find this kind of literalism about a text so translated, retranslated, and patched-together as the Bible (and no, I don’t mean that disrespectfully – I’ve heard Jesuits be more specifically critical than that) bizarre. Especially if you’re only working from a modern-language version.

Having said that, using religious beliefs to inform political stances is not necessarily bad. Both Christians and neo-Pagans are often into eating less processed, more local/seasonal food for religious reasons. A lot of people get into anti-poverty advocacy for religious reasons.

The trick is to remember that many paths lead to the same destination, and that the destination doesn’t make your path any better than anyone else’s.


The same behind-the-scenes people who have been pushing the Armageddon scenario since that time are still pulling the strings with Trump’s current attempt. There are many Christians trying valiantly to explain to the public how this is not really “Christian”, but it doesn’t matter, because claiming to be of a particular belief system doesn’t really indicate one’s actual beliefs and motivations. Born into a different time and place, they would have called themselves something else, but they would have still lusted for violence and domination over others.


I want a rational explanation of why some religious groups feel the need to come to one’s front door and explain why one should be saved. How is that even legal? I don’t go round knocking on the front doors belonging to people I don’t know to explain why they should abandon their belief systems.

If it’s a part of their religion - evangelical is the term, I believe - it shouldn’t be above the law. Or is this one of those municipality-by-municipality things?

Update: It’s a 1st Amendment right for someone to come, uninvited, onto my property to try and “save” me? Hah? Can this be 'splained? Oh…the SCOTUS ruling was made in 2002. But they’ve been doing it long before then…and they’re lumping it in with political door-to-door folks, further confusing the issue…



Why they feel the need? Two reasons.

First, there is a commandment to spread the faith in the gospel.
Second, they legitimately believe that people will burn in Hell if they don’t, and would prefer that didn’t happen (some also believe that they will also be held responsible for the sins of other people if they don’t at least make a token effort to convert them).

…The same way door-to-door sales, charities, food drives, political campaigns, and everything else in that category are?

Do you have a problem with anyone coming to your door uninvited, or just evangelists? If it’s everyone… I don’t really have an answer as to why people are allowed on your private property uninvited. If you’re okay with charities, salespeople, politicians, etc. selling door-to-door… It’d be really tricky to write a law that allowed all of those people to come onto your property to make a sales pitch, but not for religious people to do the same.


I’m personally not a fan of cold callers in general, but yeah. Since there’s usually going to be some classes of people you don’t mind coming up to your door, getting a law that prohibits everyone else would be… a problem. There’s always the “no soliciting” signs you can hang up, which can subsequently be ignored by solicitors…

You can always politely tell them you’re not interested, but that they’re welcome to come to the next sacrifice to spread the word to everyone else. It’s BYOC (child), of course, and if they want extra blood they should bring that along too.

If they get huffy, just point out that BYOChild sacrifices are in the Bible, too! :smiling_imp:

( I offer this as an option, not a recommendation. It could go well (stopping them from coming again) or extremely badly. YMMV )


The whole Bush-era neocon cohort had all kinds of unresolved envies and regrets and other issues about World War II and Vietnam they wanted to act out over and over again. Every bad guy was Hitler. This new bad guy is Hitler too, they’re all Hitler. If you don’t like our war you’re spitting on the veterans getting off the plane from Saigon who definitely never killed any babies. This time we’ll get it right.

Trump is also a Baby Boomer but at least he doesn’t have those particular neuroses. And eventually these people will die off. Maybe we’ll get lucky and we won’t have another generation of leaders reenacting other people’s wars any time soon.


Actually, I can’t remember the last time a representative of a charity came to my door. There are the rare AT&T and Brinks’ Home Security salesfolks, which I find just as annoying as religious folks.

I suppose I comprehend it and why it exists - the whole door-to-door thing, that is (I’m sure someone’s written their marketing thesis on it), but it seems vastly outmoded, no matter what its purpose.

And I don’t trust or like people that I know nothing about and who come to my door uninvited asking me, the one person on my block who can’t even afford to pay her own fucking bills, never mind donate to charity, for help that I can’t give. I’ve had my home broken into during the daytime; I’ve had my own fucking neighbor whisper threateningly to me in the middle of the night outside my bedroom window. So is it any wonder I don’t trust folks?

And a buyer on FB - potential, wanted me to dig through my craft junk and look for big crochet needles - preached to me on Messenger and told me about her church and they’d come to pick me up, et cetera. And all I did was say, um well this is what I do since I don’t have a job, sell stuff from my home, and I got the whole spiel about how they’d been through bad times and how God does this and that…

If I’m offending anyone who believes in God and practices to the best of your ability your faith of choice - do you do that sort of thing? I did not once say, By the way, why DO YOU PRESUME I’M FUCKING CHRISTIAN? In fact, I never say that to anyone who presumes it, as much as I’d like to.

And it happens a lot. Because I’m white and female and live in the USA. And that’s what bothers me, being a non-Christian/Jew/Muslim in a society where if you’re not one of those things, you’re an atheist. I’m not sure I’m an atheist, but I know I don’t believe in any of the precepts associated with those faiths, nor with any others that I can think of (either something just doesn’t jibe with me when it gets down to the nuts-and-bolts of things, or I feel like a cultural misfit, which is why I’m not a Parsi). I believe in Nature as a force. Right now, that’s the best - and shortest, lol - explanation of my personal beliefs.

Anyone remember, “Are You There, God? It’s Me, Margaret.”?, LOL!


I sympathize. I once had a church trio come to the door, showed me an iPad and said, “would you like to view this video?” Uh no. I just find it rude for them to assume someone hasn’t found their own way, in whatever church/temple/mosque/meeting room/laboratory/flying saucer/etc. they choose.


It doesn’t seem that they have receptivity in mind, do they?


“Would you like to own this iPad?” is what I thought you typed, at first glance.



I’ve gotten to the point where I just say “I’m not interested” and gently close the door, regardless of anything else they may say. Sometimes I have to interrupt them to say it, but the door closes anyway. I think it takes a lot of practice for generally polite folks to be able to do this – it sure took me a long time – and I suspect door-to-door people take advantage of the general politeness of most people.


Yeah, that’s what I do, and sometimes add, “Better luck next stop”. And I do it swiftly as possible, but gently.


I haven’t had any evangelists come to my door (salespeople, charities, and politicians, yes), but, if I did, I’d probably make them a deal: they can talk on as long as they want to try to convert me back to Christianity, but I get an equivalent amount of time to try to talk them around to atheism.


Tell them you are God, and that they can stop with the door to door now. Probably they won’t believe you, but at least chances are good they won’t come back.

If they try to engage in a theological argument, you can sigh and ask why they doubt you.


Probably less likely to get some idiots calling the police on you than my option. :smiley:

Might need to arm yourself with plenty of bible quotes about not needing Him to prove Himself, showing up at the most unexpected time, etc.


A friend used to say (and pardon me if I’m repeating myself) “God in his infinite wisdom didn’t give me the gift of faith. So who am I to question His will?”


Won’t work. Most Christians sects believe in free will, and they will be more than happy to tell you why, in excruciating detail. And then they will offer to pray for you as if you were somehow defective.


Or tell them you don’t read the bible because it was your cringey LiveJournal from your awkward teenage years?