Vandalism has developed a distinct legal meaning, and I don’t think there have been any Vandals left to object to the slur for a good thousand years or so now, not since the Umayyads took North Africa and Spain. It was an ethnic group.
11 Likes
Regardless of whether any Vandals can object now, I think anyone who want to understand the human past should object to the misuse of demonyms.
It’s much more of an issue with “Philistine.”
Primarily because of people hating the modern Palestinians. But also because of problems for archaeologists studying Philistine culture, particularly Philistine art.
2 Likes
I don’t think anyone using the term now is referring to the Vandals of the 600’s or earlier. They no longer exist as a group.
7 Likes
Does an ethnic slur cease to be offensive in intent when an ethnicity is eliminated? “Vandalizing” was a slur with the same intent as “Jewing” or “Gypping”, and hoooo boy…
I mean no offense, mind.
5 Likes
How far do we reach back to find words to eliminate because they were a slur at one time, but now no longer have that meaning in common use because the group no longer exists? Is there a cutoff? A guideline?
I ask because I feel trying to eliminate “vandal” and associated words is simply going too far. IMHO.
The two words you gave as examples refer to groups that exist now, and are still used by some as ethnic slurs.
ETA: Is calling someone a “Neanderthal” if they’re particularly thick-headed bad?
9 Likes
Perhaps, but it came about long after the group ceased to exist (starting around Milton’s time) due to the sack of Rome, at a period when Roman culture was rather idealised. Granted, the Vandals didn’t do anything much different from any other conquering army, but they were known in particular to deface statues…
6 Likes
1st, I think abusing demonyms for past groups encourages the habit of abusing demonyms for present groups.
2nd, a lot of people aren’t too clear on who does or doesn’t still exist. For example, most Americans with regard to the Samaritans. Or the Parsee.
3rd, a lot of these stereotypes can affect our perception of past groups.
4th, a lot of these terms make it hard to search for, e.g. extant Gothic architecture such as the tomb of Theodoric, or Gothic literature such as the Bononia fragment…
3 Likes
It can go the other way too. Would you call a married woman without an outside job a “hussy” today and just expect it to be a plain, unloaded descriptor? Of course not, yet hussy is a short form of housewife, and once upon a time meant only that.
Some slurs have been watered down and drifted completely away from their origins. Others, like the infamous n word, don’t seem to be losing their sting any time soon.
It’s fun (er, if you’re into history, but I am!) to learn about the origins of words. It’s important to know the context of them, and to watch out for slurs, especially ones not intended.
But to go by only the “original” meaning of any word would basically rob us of practically every modern language.
12 Likes
Yup, so you use the meaning as it is right now to determine whether you’re slurring someone or not.
8 Likes
I think it’s more complicated than that (like most things are). Clearly there are words that are and have been used as slurs for a while (I’m deliberately using an undefined period of time), and we should know not to use them. IMO “vandal” doesn’t fall into that category, because it’s not used today to put down an early tribe who died out in the 600’s. It’s used in the legal sense (even if in just informal conversation as opposed to lawyers arguing in court), to mean someone who damages something for the heck of it.
“Demonym” means a designation of someone by where they live. Can’t I say I’m an American because I live in the US?
Do people really use the word Samaritan as a slur today?
Perhaps but I worry more about perception of present groups; I think we need to spend our energy on that, IMO.
This is a technological problem, unrelated to whether a word is a slur or not, seems to me. A lot of my searches don’t work out due to term confusion, or the fact that Google has really degraded its capabilities over time, even with the advanced search. My failures are usually because I want a specific question answered. Yesterday I searched for a music player that would actually use the old fashioned idea of keeping music in separate directories and subdirectories. Alas, nowadays everything is sorted by the keywords in the mp3 files, which doesn’t work for me. Some of my files don’t have any keywords, because I have ripped them from vinyl. Anyway, I got no results from my search.
3 Likes
Case tracker:
2 Likes
The default music player on Samsung phones does have this, weirdly enough (“weirdly enough” because it’s about the only app provided by Samsung which doesn’t drive me batty – I’ve tried alternatives a few times and always return to it).
3 Likes
Totally agree, though I do have a parallel concern for those who try to shore up their modern cause with imagery from other groups, extinct or otherwise. Consider the much-maligned swastika, a very old symbol of peace Hitler trampled all over (at least it survived in India with its original sense intact), or the fascist’s favourite alphabet, runes, which the Vikings acquired from goods traded from North Africa.
I mean shit, fascists can’t get history or geography right. The Viking ancestors they’re so proud of (whether they actually have any or not) would be totally confused by their hidebound attitudes.
5 Likes
Also, what about the punk band the Vandals?
8 Likes
Thank you Sheriff Ozzie Knezovich for taking this seriously.
Too many members of Law Enforcement would shrug and say “Freeze Peach. Can’t do nuthin’ till he actually kills someone,” and then contribute to his campaign.
Scarily, given the district, he might actually get re-elected.
8 Likes
8 Likes
Martha and the Vandellas were a punk group? 
6 Likes
Then too, Aryans tend to have a range of complexions that includes quite dark, and live in the Land of the Aryans, i.e., Iran, and wouldn’t that rot the socks of all those white nationalists.
12 Likes
I’m still hoping “Americanize” becomes a thing.
Americanize: to go into a situation one is totally unfamiliar with and completely fuck shit up.
11 Likes
I’ve already heard the term used for when a corporation which has attained cultural status – in Canada something like Tim Hortons and The Bay – gets taken over by foreign owners, typically American. Then they try to change the company to what works in the US, not realising that the US is not a place free from its own cultural context (er, which in most lights is a good thing).
Then the company falters or fails, and the market shrinks, but the culture shrinks more.
The Zellers/Target debacle was a good example. So is Tim Hortons, even though they were bought by Brazilians, not Americans.
8 Likes