The problems of the Democratic party

[PsiPhiGrrrl]

After catching up on the HCR discussion this morning, and reading about yet another Democratic think tank, it seems like we need better messaging “from the bottom up.” The donors and power brokers will always try to anoint someone because they have grown accustomed to it. If we want a real grassroots effort to put progressive candidates in power and force TPTB in the party to support them, my suggestion is to increase visibility among the voters who reject the “big plans for change” / embrace of moderates being announced.

@DukeTrout

If we don’t ally with ANYONE who opposes turning the US into a fascist dictatorship, we lose. Period.

@DukeTrout

Disagreement about policy is irrelevant in the face of that.

Agreed. I’m not saying that we fight with those folks behind us so they can shoot us in the back. No, put them where we can keep an eye on them, and use them where they will be useful to us. It does not mean they get a trusted position, because trust must be earned. We use them, but we also watch what they do, because actions speak louder than words. We’ve had enough experience with DINOs to have learned that lesson.

@chenille

People aren’t robots who can fight just as well next to enemies when it’s in their interest. When someone embraces people who want to harm them, it’s a struggle to maintain effort and enthusiasm.

Using the enemy to advance your cause doesn’t mean being a robot. As a Black woman, if my ancestors hadn’t learned to fight alongside those who hate us - Black people AND women - I might not be here today. Hell, we’re still seeing Black people whose family members were killed by racists embracing them in court. So, I’m firmly on the team that says when asked to fight alongside those I deeply dislike and distrust, “Yes, I can.” Doesn’t mean I enjoy it, or that those MFers are invited to the cookout after we win.

@chenille

the central problem in American politics is never who people vote for, it is always whether people vote. Democrats win when they inspire people to turn out. Obama did despite the handicap of racism.

@DukeTrout

People who sit it out because those allies aren’t pure enough are worthless in the fight we are in NOW.

This is why the examples of fundraising and activism set by Obama and Stacey Abrams are what we need to wrest control from those donors and powerbrokers who want to anoint a moderate. The lesson learned from Harris here also needs to be considered:

@DukeTrout

What she clearly didn’t count on was the racism and misogyny of the entire US electorate, across the spectrum. And that makes me depressed to write that, but it’s the logical conclusion.

I believe it was more the misogyny, and promoting Waltz / AOC would avoid that potential pitfall. The success of the Biden / Harris ticket shows less pushback on the “heartbeat away” argument among voters, especially given his age at the time. So, back to my original point - should we use social media comments, polls, and articles among the press outlets not stifled by billionaires to make our feelings known about preferred candidates and key points of a winning platform? Do we know Walz and AOC would be on board with that ticket? If not, how can we check interest? Maybe we could encourage like-minded voters to flood the DNC site with comments about progressive, pro-worker, and pro-Democracy goals, too:

Contact Us - Democrats

[danimagoo]

I think the problem I have with all of this is that, in my lifetime so far, when Democrats ally with those who disagree with them, it always seems to involve the Party platform moving to the right. I am more than willing to accept the temporary alliance of people who want to oppose fascism. But I do not support changing the Party platform to what is essentially the formerly moderate Republican platform in order to maintain that alliance. But this seems to be the only thing the Party leadership thinks they can do when they form these alliances. And so, over time, the party shifts to the right. AOC, just going by her economic and foreign policy positions, would not have been considered a radical leftist in 1975. And this wasn’t a shift that happened rapidly. It has happened gradually. It has to stop, or we’re going to end up with the Fascist Party and the Fascist Lite Party. Some would argue we’re already there. I’m not one of them, but I can understand the argument.

And I’ve said this before, but I will say it again now. If the Democratic Party nominates Gavin Newsom in 2028, I am done. I’m out. That will convince me that the Democratic Party is not, and never will be, the way forward. I can only take so much of this bullshit. I am not some kind of woke ideological purity advocate, but Newsom is fascist adjacent, at best, and that will be too much for me.

[PsiPhiGrrrl]

I think that’s an excellent message to share with the DNC.

[tornpapernapkin]

How do we get the DNC to listen though? Honestly ime writing letters just flat doesn’t work. Hell my mom once wrote a letter telling a representative their stance was awful and wrong and got back not only boilerplate but boilerplate thanking her for supporting the politician’s stance and how unwavering the support has been.

I’ve never gotten a response from anything. My mom volunteered with a local campaign or two quite a lot. Back then I was slightly hopeful. More recently I’ve sat next to people running for seats as dems. I have little hope. I have little hope based on my interactions with them. I believe. I truly believe that for the most part they just don’t care. They care about the CDC maybe or the economy but that is the limit of it.

Now this may be biased because I didn’t want to be in this state and have simply failed to get out and accepted that. But these people came here which means they already didn’t care about their wives or daughters very much. So maybe there’s something about that selection of individuals. But it is so discouraging.

[PsiPhiGrrrl]

@tornpapernapkin

How dd we get the DNC to listen though? Honestly ime writing letters just flat doesn’t work

I’ve worked for pols a few times in my career. Responses are based on numbers and visibility. They respond to that. Individual letters don’t get a response (unless it’s for a milestone achievement), while hundreds or thousands of letters on a single subject do. They care about votes and support for campaigns. Most elected pols are responsive on issues related to specific areas of interest for constituents/businesses in a region and/or their committee assignments (depending on federal, state, or local level).

However, we’re talking about the party itself, which is different. Since we’re talking about change at the national level, that shifts who should be engaged in the communications, too. This is why I mentioned polls and posts/articles on social media as ways of gaining attention. Unlike polls sponsored by news outlets, which get coverage no matter how flawed, we need something created and promoted by the voters.

In order to avoid reinventing the wheel, a good starting point would be to find out resources already in place that can be used to send a message endorsed by millions of people. Change.org (or another petition platform) could be helpful. I’m not sure about an option for polls, though.

[KathyPartdeux]

https://archive.ph/UaOrt

Walz appears to be feeling out if he has enough support to run.

Maybe tell him you want him to?

[chenille]

@PsiPhiGrrrl

So, I’m firmly on the team that says when asked to fight alongside those I deeply dislike and distrust, “Yes, I can.”

Sure. I’m just saying morale is a thing too, and the thing where only progressives can and must get criticism destroys it. And let’s be clear – if you call to welcome in people for whom the Republicans have only just now gotten a little too fascist, because we need all the help we can get, and yet will still go after leftists who were too naively deontological to stomach voting for a party complicit in actual livestreamed genocide, that’s what you’re doing.

My impression is that this as much of a problem of the Democratic party as anything else. It’s true that Harris was under a massive handicap from misogyny, so I can’t prove that focusing on conservatives and neglecting progressives hurt her. On the other hand I also can’t prove that overly pure leftists cost her the election for exactly the same reason, but apparently it never hurts to scold that anyway. Olive branches are for the right.

It’s exhausting. Exhaustion loses fights.

[PsiPhiGrrrl]

@chenille

I’m just saying morale is a thing too, and the thing where only progressives can and must get criticism destroys it. And let’s be clear – if you call to welcome in people for whom the Republicans have only just now gotten a little too fascist, because we need all the help we can get, and yet will still go after leftists

Sorry, you lost me here. Who is only criticizing progressives, and who are you expecting will “go after leftists?”

[chenille]

The post I had replied to said that we need to ally with anyone who opposes turning the US into a fascist dictatorship, and calls disagreement about policy irrelevant. To me that reads as saying we need them and shouldn’t argue with them…and yet the one before it argued against leftists who were doing it wrong and therefore were part of the problem and not true anti-fascists. So that’s the context for what you quoted.

[mindysan33]

Um, off topic, but did… the author really need to define “deer in headlights”?

The Minnesota governor cited a recent New York Times article about the Democratic Party’s examination of its losses, where a Georgia voter was quoted describing the party as “a deer in headlights” — an animal that stands in the path of an oncoming car and doesn’t move even though it’s going to get hit.

[tornpapernapkin]

The more I think of it though it’s all related and it’s not encouraging. Like, one of the clearest ways to communicate with the DNC is to get out and vote for the candidates who espouse the things we want to hear. But when we do they get sidelined.

How much clearer can people be though? Like when we turn up and vote and actually elect some one that way?

And I can honestly down in Texas after Beto there has been nothing but abandonment. I get that people may not want to engage here. But shit… people went into Mississippi to engage with actual lynch mobs back in the day. They cared about those elections. They cared about those votes enough to take a real risk on them. Do the modern dems? Like are they willing to come and try to connect with people even in places like Texas and be really public about that? I’m not sure? But that’s the level of reach-out that would have to happen to make a real difference I think since people are actually not nearly as concentrated in land masses as they are divided among social lines within them.

[PsiPhiGrrrl]

@chenille

we need to ally with anyone who opposes turning the US into a fascist dictatorship, and calls disagreement about policy irrelevant. To me that reads as saying we need them and shouldn’t argue with them…and yet the one before it argued against leftists who were doing it wrong and therefore were part of the problem and not true anti-fascists.

I’m not sure what the party can do to address concerns about morale, other than to get the various factions to agree on presenting a united front against fascism (making it the top priority). Knowing that we have the numbers to accomplish that goal would probably do a lot to lift the spirits of those of us who are tired of losing to the forces against democracy. Those who want to argue something else should be the top priority, other than fighting fascism first, might not be part of that united front.

I’m not saying that other priorities can’t be argued about, but that cannot derail progress against the main goal. If a platform of the top 5 issues was all they focus on from now through 2028 and fighting fascism was number one, I’d be OK with that (even if other issues of importance to me were not on the short list). It’s interesting how the GOP can create a big tent of people who disagree on a variety of points yet they all vote in enough numbers to get their candidates elected. We see how there are factions and infighting in the administration now as each group tries to get more attention for their own priorities now that their pols have the power to get something done. That’s a better time to fight.

[mindysan33]

@tornpapernapkin

But shit… people went into Mississippi to engage with actual lynch mobs back in the day.

People died. There was blood on the streets, and violence everywhere. We think about the movement as being peaceful and everyone finally decided enough was enough, but these racist fuckers fought back hard, and yet people went and did the work. We have some violence and threats of violence, but I don’t know that it’s reached this level yet.

But even then, one of the most progressive Democratic administrations had it out for the left flank. Let’s not forget that when Fannie Lou Hamer went to the Democratic convention to advocate for the Mississippi Democratic freedom party being seated with the MS delegation, and the media gave her a microphone to do that, Johnson called a press conference to get her shut down. Johnson certainly was in favor of civil rights and contributed to getting those bills into law, but Hamer and the others challenging the racist MS state party got shut down.

[PsiPhiGrrrl]

@tornpapernapkin

And I can honestly down in Texas after Beto there has been nothing but abandonment. I get that people may not want to engage here. But shit… people went into Mississippi to engage with actual lynch mobs back in the day. They cared about those elections. They cared about those votes enough to take a real risk on them. Do the modern dems? Like are they willing to come and try to connect with people even in places like Texas and be really public about that?

Prominent Democrats have been hosting events across the country this year, in “red” states in particular, and here’s one on Beto O’Rourke:

Beto O'Rourke speaks at 'Tide Against Trump' rally in Alabama

Beto is also in the news because of comments about running again in Texas:

https://www.houstonpublicmedia.org/articles/news/politics/2025/05/29/522622/texas-democrat-beto-orourke-returns-to-houston-area-for-another-town-hall/

[tornpapernapkin]

@chenille

but apparently it never hurts to scold that anyway

No one has been spared any scolding really. And realistically all of these things hurt the party. The question now is what will the DNC will do about it and how will they prioritize. Exhausting an opponent is ultimately just a way to overpower and dominate them. For some people this is going to be worth doing on purpose because they are trying to win control in the DNC.

[chenille]

@PsiPhiGrrrl

I’m not sure what the party can do to address concerns about morale, other than to get the various factions to agree on presenting a united front against fascism (making it the top priority)

Personally I think if all the centrists who say things like “oh look, the almost nothing we did for trans rights was far too much and we must make sure never to do it again” would shut up it would help a lot. Showing you’re willing to throw people under the bus is cynical and dispiriting.

If we’re comparing with the GOP, they may have been a coalition of factions that don’t agree on everything, but they sure didn’t back off from insisting everyone be on board with an incredibly exclusive vision. Obviously I don’t think the Democrats should copy that, but I do think it helps when they stand up for their values, even for people who disagree with some of them. Isn’t that what Obama did? I know in practice he compromised a lot, but he at least sounded like he stood for something and wasn’t an empty suit, and despite racism he won twice.

[KathyPartdeux]

@chenille

Personally I think if all the centrists who say things like “oh look, the almost nothing we did for trans rights

There is no equal rights law for trans and other queer people. The bare minimum is apparently going too far.

Bills have been introduced since 1974 - over a half a century ago. And they think we’re asking for too much?

[womanhood_deferred]

[womanhood_deferred]

https://www.politico.com/newsletters/west-wing-playbook-remaking-government/2025/06/04/dems-eye-a-villain-to-ally-arc-for-musk-00385945

[KathyPartdeux]

They can certainly use him; but ally?