Yeah. I deliberately did not watch the video. I’m sure I could not take it.
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It was so over the top, I think it may become unavoidable. Historic. Like Khrushchev pounding his shoe on the table.
As a USian, I’m especially dismayed and embarrassed in front of the world. And those two words feel inadequate.
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Absolutely… watching this now. JFC.
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Ugh, Tramp claiming he’s saving Zelenskyy’s country when he’s really just trying to make a deal and get money out of it!
Nauseating evidence that both Tramp and Jerky D are not leadership material, and that trying to do international politics like it’s instead a series of corrupt business practices is stupid and just doesn’t work.
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The Art of the Deal – shouting lies and insults at someone like a petulant toddler, and never mind that their entire political career has been one long refusal to bow down to thugs.
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They are so blatantly unfit and over their heads.
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Yes, and I think that contrast with how Zelenskyy handled the situation just shot his approval ratings in Europe through the roof, not to mention at home.
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I imagine it will also convince various European leaders that Trump’s both untrustworthy and useless.
I’m trying to come up with a historical precedent for this kind of national self-destruction, driven by such a small group of so obviously unfit and worthless losers, and striking a blank. This feels like it’s genuinely unique in history.
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I admire Zelensky immensely–he has stood strong, rallying his country, facing a powerful invading army that greatly outnumbers Ukraine’s own, fending off assassination attempts and calls to surrender, living amid bombs and carnage, building global support as best he can. And using his background as an actor to until now tolerate the crap that comes at him from Putin’s #1 puppet.
Trump and Vance weren’t even just trying to extort him; they were demanding personal submission, which is a reminder that everything they do is first of all about their sad sleazy egos. They are not building power but spending it as though it is inexhaustible, and they will spend it down to nothing.
The absymal behavior has further rallied Europe behind Ukraine with powerful statements by Macron, Poland’s Donald Tusk, and:
Guardian: European leaders rally behind Ukraine’s Zelenskyy after Trump spat
The Norwegian prime minister Jonas Gahr Støre is the latest European leader to offer his support for Zelenskyy and Ukraine as he says this:
We stand by Ukraine in their fair struggle for a just and lasting peace.
The Swedish prime minister Ulf Kristersson said:
Sweden stands with Ukraine. You are not only fighting for your freedom but also for all of Europe’s. Slava Ukraini!
The Lithuanian president Gitanas Nausėda has also joined in:
Ukraine, you’ll never walk alone.
… and the Irish foreign minister Simon Harris:
Ukraine is not to blame for this war brought about by Russia’s illegal invasion. We stand with Ukraine.
Their comments come after earlier expression of support from Poland’s Tusk, Spain’s Sanchez, and France’s Macron.
Spanish prime minister Pedro Sánchez has joined the list of European leaders offering their support and solidarity to Ukraine after the clash between Trump, Vance and Zelenskyy.
He has just posted a social media update saying:
Ucrania, España está contigo.
Ukraine, Spain stands with you.
Україно, Іспанія з тобою.
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Oh, I completely agree. I don’t think this is hyperbole.
There was none of the subtle shade or side eye like you would typically see in these kind of press conferences. This was Trump and Vance outright bullying and threatening Zelenskyy. There was no nuance or subtley here. He literally told Zelenskyy to make a deal “or else”.
The CNN chyron tried to portray it as a “screaming match” but really it was Trump and Vance doing all the “screaming”. Zelenskyy looked pissed, yes, but he looked like the mature one. He barely raised his voice, and when he did it was becuase he was trying to get a word in while Trump and Vance wouldn’t shut the fuck up and actually let him speak.
Or to put it another way, Trump and Vance looked like the embodiment of what so many see America as now: just a bunch of schoolyard bullies picking on those who are vulnerable because they can.
I’ve never subscribed to this “America is the leader of the free world” mentality, but if there has ever been a day that this idea can be considered dead and buried, it is today.
TBH in some ways I’m glad this deal broke down in such spectacular fashion. It showed in real time what a terrible “negotiator” and “deal maker” Trump is. The entire way this thing broke down so publicly and in such an unforced way is just stunning. That whole “US will take 50% of Ukraine’s natural resources” or whatever bullshit deal Trump was parroting was nothing less than outrageous extortion. But even with that, Zelenskyy was willing to take a deal that was hugely unfavorable for him in exchange for security guarantees.
He showed actual leadership by standing strong in the face of Trump’s brow beating. Remarkably, this wasn’t your typical press conference taken after a closed door session went sideways, this could be observed in real time by the entire world.
I don’t see how any thinking person could objectively look at what happened here and blame anybody other than Trump and Vance for its failure. This was Trump’s deal to lose, and yet he still ended up snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. This just further proves to me that he was never truly interested in making any sort of deal to begin with.
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Taoiseach Michael Martin will be in DC in a couple of weeks for St. Patrick’s day… I hope that he also has a firm statement about this. Although he recently called out the Sinn Fein leader for saying they’re going to boycott St. Patrick’s day because of Trump…
Strikes me that this is how they believe autocrats act and are trying to play the part… 
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Oh yeah, this was a total debacle. This kind of shit just plain does not happen in the international diplomacy, no matter how acrimonious the negotiations behind closed doors, or how bad the actual deal.
Trump and Vance just showed everyone that they are not just bullies, they are amateurs and incompetents, who can’t do basic diplomacy.
It’s the weak (and stupid) man’s idea of a strongman, basically.
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Exactly, with puffed-up “masculine energy” and all that shite, idiots that they are. Not sure what there is to think further about there.
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Zelensky’s gonna speak at the hudson institution!
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Interesting theory. Maybe T and V did try to goad Z into blowing his top or something. If so, the effort instead blew up in their own faces. No one but the fiercest MAGAts thinks T and V didn’t completely face plant during that exchange.
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I feel like this was simply Trump and Vance being Trump and Vance, stupid and petty bullies. I mean, on the one hand yes, this was shocking to see on the world stage. But on the other…what did people expect from them instead? It’s not like they’ve been unknown quantities, or was today going to be the day when Trump finally became president?
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