So, my older-than-I-by-7-years brother - my only brother - called me after I posted this on Facebook:
Okay, if I’m incorrect about any part of the following, I want to be corrected, please: It seems in the USA, it can take five to six years for a person who’s been declared disabled in some way, shape or form by their doctor to obtain Social Security Disability Income (SSDI) or any other form of monetary government assistance. From what I’ve been told by folks experienced with such things personally, it seems to consist of their side arguing with the state over whether or not the disability exists, plus waiting for the case line to move. Meanwhile, the disabled person who can’t work a job that pays their necessary bills each much and helps them to buy food isn’t making that money. And I can only imagine that the current COVID-19 crisis isn’t quickening the process. Any comments on this post are most welcome!
First, he doesn’t comment.
Secondly, when he calls, he wants to know if I want to talk to his AA sponsor (who believes stuff about angels and the Universe being something that makes no sense to me - he PM’ed me about it some time ago, his sponsor did). See, his sponsor is on disability, and with different problems than I…plus he’s a white male in recovery, whereas I’m a white female who smokes pot but doesn’t drink…
Thirdly, he then went on to say to me…GET THIS: He was drained by the recent death of Luke and the fourth anniversary of my mom’s death on the 23rd. As if I wasn’t.
How can he get to know me when he doesn’t shut up? I told him thanks but no thanks, didn’t feel comfy with Bill (the sponsor), I could find out on my own, ad nauseum.
I also told him that I would be pursuing help if there wasn’t a pandemic going on and others didn’t need medical attention for their LIVES, some of them. I’m sorry, that’s my way.
And waiting for shutoff notices before asking for help from the state - that grates on me so much. I have friends that will help me, but FUCK, I can’t see me repaying them any time soon, and…ah. hell.
To be fair, the place was a mosque from 1453 on. And before that it was an Orthodox church and at one point Catholic… No fan of Erdogan, but I’m not nearly as upset by this as by other things he’s done, such as his constant attacks on Kurdish people.
I don’t think they’ll stop you from visiting, you’ll just need to treat it like you would visiting any other house of worship as a tourist.
To be fair, the history of that secular government is equally problematic. Ataturk himself presided over a pretty brutal “turkiziation” of the country, one that had previously been multi-ethnic and multi-religious. Non-Turks have been pretty ruthlessly suppressed (making instruction in their languages illegal, for example) for much of it’s modern history.
I don’t disagree that Erdogan is an authoritarian, religious leader, but he’s in line with Turkey’s history of ethnic division and subordination of non-Turks.
I guess I just don’t have a big problem with them allowing religious worship again, as it doesn’t necessarily change other uses (such as tourism). If he begins to block other kinds of engagement and study of the building, that’s something else entirely, but at some point, I think the country where a site like this is located should be to make choices about how it’s used.
The question I have is about art. My understanding was there were for instance mosaics that were plastered over when it became a mosque, and when it became a museum they were restored. I assume this doesn’t bode well for them.
The iconoclasts lost, though, and the victors weren’t going to leave the place empty forever. The wikipedia article has a section on the mosaics and says most were from the 10th and 12th centuries.
It might not suit Erdogan, but I wonder if there’s some way-- e.g. long disputes over floor space-- for at least part of the complex to serve each of the 3 traditional roles.
The original art is long gone, since this was first built in the 4th century? Its’ been changed a variety of times and the art would reflect that. Any changes that were made to it post-Ataturk that restored Christian iconography would have probably been recreations of those that existed prior to 1453, right?
And no one seems to have an issue with the huge number of active churches that are also tourist attractions.
Probably. Mehmed demanded that the church be preserved when they took the city, the people in the church would have removed stuff when the siege began (or before it began).
Plus, of course, Catholics themselves had changed the church in 1204.
No, they changed it to a mosque, which was common practice in the 15th century.
Do you mean Orthodox, Catholic, and Muslim? I guess, but I don’t think there has been any Christian worship there since the Siege of Constantinople. I think they can both preserve the museum nature of the mosque and open it for worship.
I was thinking church, mosque, and museum. Perhaps setting side areas where more of the appropriate iconography or icon-free-ography survives. Or using tarps, tapestries, etc. for a nondestructive recreation when needed.
To be fair, though, it’s not like people have used it as a Christian church for over 500 years.
As far as I know, they will not be barring visitors who wish to visit it as a museum. That could happen, but I don’t think Erdogan is that dumb, given the popularity as a tourist attraction. I think he’s counting on more Muslim tourists interested in the Ottoman history now, though.
Here is the latest on how they plan to deal with the Christian iconography during services:
Islam has a pretty strict ban on idolatry (which includes any depictions of the prophet and even other religious figures and explains the preference for scriptural or non-human art work in Islamic spaces), so this makes sense they’d do this during services. But they are not going to be taken out, so that preserves the historical aspect, too.
No need to worry. We know how McConnell feels about appointing a Supreme Court Judge the year before a presidential election. It just wouldn’t happen. /s
